03-05-2009, 15:27
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#1
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 880
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Bullet Identifcation
Had a case last night that operatively had devastating injuries due to the attached bullet....anyone know the type/manufacturer of this one...
not one I have dealt with before.
It is not a HST, SXT or PMC Star. Any assistance would be appreciated.
ss
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'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )
Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.
The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)
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swatsurgeon is offline
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03-05-2009, 16:43
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,164
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The fully enclosed base should narrow it down, check some of these out (click on the photograph to enlarge):
http://frag.110mb.com/
Item Number 9 looks close, note the groove in the center of each wedge of expansion. And a gold dot in the center.
Do you have a weight?
Last edited by CSB; 03-05-2009 at 16:48.
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CSB is offline
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03-05-2009, 16:46
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#3
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Fayetteville NC
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I would guess Black Talon. I thought it had been banned.
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longrange1947 is offline
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03-05-2009, 17:02
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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It looks like the 9mm +P 124 Speer Gold Dot. #53617 in CSB's link. In the upper photo's it is #10, not 9, but in the individuals, it is #9.
Syd,
Did it have a Lead Core or was it a Solid Alloy??
Later.
Martin
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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03-05-2009, 18:04
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambush Master
It looks like the 9mm +P 124 Speer Gold Dot. #53617 in CSB's link. In the upper photo's it is #10, not 9, but in the individuals, it is #9.
Syd,
Did it have a Lead Core or was it a Solid Alloy??
Later.
Martin
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That is what I am thinking, I have some of those.
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HOLLiS is offline
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03-05-2009, 19:22
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#6
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I finally found the detective today that worked the case. Speer ammo and judging by pictures as well as one from my collection of 6 recovered from bodies (patients), I guess it is a gold dot.
None of my previously recovered ones openned like this one...the leaves/petals usually bend back around the bullet and haven't remained on a horizontal plane. The detective said he'd call me back after he gets the bullets out of the gun...his info was based on the case recovered at the scene that said 9mm speer.
Typical of wound ballistics, bullets react differently in different tissues NOT as gel demonstrates they'll do in tissue simulant.
__________________
'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )
Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.
The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)
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swatsurgeon is offline
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03-05-2009, 19:49
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambush Master
It looks like the 9mm +P 124 Speer Gold Dot. #53617 in CSB's link. In the upper photo's it is #10, not 9, but in the individuals, it is #9.
Syd,
Did it have a Lead Core or was it a Solid Alloy??
Later.
Martin
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It sure would be easier to identify if all that red stuff were not on there.....
Also, it might or might not be one of the same rounds that will be found in the remaining mag, tell the det. to make sure he checks the head stamp on the spent casing to compare.
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-05-2009, 19:24
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#8
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1947
I would guess Black Talon. I thought it had been banned.
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the talons and sxt's have a separation plane between jacket and core...this round did not
__________________
'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )
Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.
The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)
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swatsurgeon is offline
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03-05-2009, 19:32
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#9
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Quiet Professional
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I'm wondering if it didn't pass thru a winter jacket with a lot of polyester fill.
Slowed it down so it didn't get a chance to wrap the star "wings" back to the back.
Must have been a spectacular hole... 
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JJ_BPK is offline
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03-05-2009, 20:19
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#10
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
I'm wondering if it didn't pass thru a winter jacket with a lot of polyester fill.
Slowed it down so it didn't get a chance to wrap the star "wings" back to the back.
Must have been a spectacular hole... |
If not through a jacket, any other obstacle or at what range was the engagement?? On the Speer site, one of the things that they say can be found here:
http://le.atk.com/general/speerprodu...n/GoldDot.aspx
The pro-jo is designed to maintain it's performance even when fired through a variety of barriers!! I agree, it looks like it was slowed down.
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Ambush Master is offline
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03-05-2009, 19:33
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Culpeper, Virginia
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SS,
In CSB's link there is also a view of the bases, your cupped base projectile tracks to the Speer #53617/#10:
http://frag.110mb.com/images/All.Sam...UpSideDown.jpg
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