View Full Version : why G2?
SupportSoldier
02-13-2005, 09:03
Hey u guys said something about support guys G2ing the course, why would I do that, I know why, but to me it really wouldn't do any good, because it's solely up to u if you do or do not give up during the course. Just because i know what or where everything is doesn't mean that i'm not gonna quit. If I were to take the time out of my training regiment to G2 the course what should I look at? suggestions, comments, concerns.....
The Reaper
02-13-2005, 09:48
Hey u guys said something about support guys G2ing the course, why would I do that, I know why, but to me it really wouldn't do any good, because it's solely up to u if you do or do not give up during the course. Just because i know what or where everything is doesn't mean that i'm not gonna quit. If I were to take the time out of my training regiment to G2 the course what should I look at? suggestions, comments, concerns.....
I suggest that your asking this question indicates to me that 1) you are not prepared for the course, and 2) you are not really SF material.
Anyone I catch G2ing the course, I recommend for relief.
Have a very non-SF Day.
TR
For almost all SF related classes the question is "Did the guy make it or wash out?"
Guys who make it tend to say it was not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. A little hard here and there but no prblem.
Guys who wash out and are honest will tell the true about how hard the training was and why they were dropped.
A guy who is full of shit says the clasic line of something like "Yeah, I got there and found out they were full of shit and I told them they could shove the course." He got smoked bad and is too chicken to admit what happened to him.
G-2ing a course also has a big draw back. Things change a tad here and a bit there. The order of stuff changes, something new is added, something old deleted. When you come under stress and something changes it could blow your mental state and that is very bad. Don't need people who stress out on teams.
Best thing is to do what you're told, when you're told and the best you can. If somebody in charge tells you the sun is not coming up in the morning say "Roger that" and check your flashlight batteries.
Pete
Team Sergeant
02-13-2005, 11:56
Hey u guys said something about support guys G2ing the course, why would I do that, I know why, but to me it really wouldn't do any good, because it's solely up to u if you do or do not give up during the course. Just because i know what or where everything is doesn't mean that i'm not gonna quit. If I were to take the time out of my training regiment to G2 the course what should I look at? suggestions, comments, concerns.....
SupportSoldier,
If you wish proper replies use proper English. Write like a 12 year old punk rock fan expect to be treated like one.
Read the Welcome and the board Rules before you post again.
Post in this fashion again and I’ll remove you from the board. I despise punks and those that act like punks. Get your shit together or take it elsewhere, you’ll not be warned again.
Team Sergeant
Hhmmm G-2,
OK here you go. Go to General Jackson right now and buy that pre shaped, pre shaved beret. You have to get it before they sell out. Usually they sell out right before graduation. You have to get that shadow box for your Yarborough knife. Also head to the airborne px and buy your long tab to include the Class A's. ( As a support guy you already have the abn tab and SF patch). You don't want to be that guy who gets to the px and it's all sold out. Get it sewn on now so that way you'll beat the rush at the cleaners. Go to your new language lab and get every CD to every language and learn every one of them. That way you'll be ready for any language SWC throws at you. Doing your PT sessions, run all over Canopy Lane, Mata Mile, Ardness St, and Coscom area so that way you cover all the MOS's PT area.
What are you still doing here reading this post? GO
Did I miss anything? :D
CPTAUSRET
02-13-2005, 12:21
Hhmmm G-2,
Did I miss anything? :D
You didn't wish him a proper send off response, ala AMF'r!
Terry
I must have missed that Phase of the course...they kept changing things around.
I tried G2ing the 18D course and still got recycled. :o
I had to...
"Better to know and not need it than...to need it and not know."
Basenshukai
02-13-2005, 17:23
A lot of people try to G2 a course. Honestly, whilst I was back at my original home station, the only thing I "G2'd" was the best physical training schedule to use for me specifically. I asked everyone and anyone who had gone and made it, or not, how they prepared. I sent away for a copy of the SAS Selection physical training manual (I forget the name. It was a small black book that I think is out of print now), the SFAS booklet, and the CCT/PJ Course book from Five Stars publishing. I got a good friend, who was also a "stud" physical fitness guy, to coach me on speed and distance running. Then, I spent the next three months working myself to the best shape of my life. I rucked, ran, swam and lifted weights every week. I prepared for the worst case scenario.
My idea was that if I got significantly hurt, only peak physical fitness and intestinal fortitude would see me through. I think this is the only way to "G2" the course. If you are trying to find the answers to "cheat" your way through, then, chances are that you won't make it past selection. If you do, chances are that you won't make it past the Q-Course. If you do, chances are that you won't make it past your first year in a team. New guys being fired from a team for not cutting it is not new. In fact, I just fired a guy last month from my team for the very reason. Accross the hall, another guy not only got fired, but got his SF tab taken from him. If you are trying to G2 for the wrong reasons, the "Regiment" will find a way out for you.
PS - That's the "1st SF Regiment" for those of you that don't "habla"... "comprende"? :)
I feel really stupid, but what is G2ing; did we have it in SFTG, and did I miss a really good deal?
SupportSoldier
02-13-2005, 22:05
Thanks for the responses i got. It's not a matter of myself trying to "beat the system," because in anything I want to "earn" everything I get. I volunteered not to go to the two week PLDC, not because I didn't think it wasn't good enough, I wanted to experience the course like past NCO's before me, I felt like I was being cheated if I went. The same with BAC. I didn't want to go to the two week course either , as far as I was concerned BAC was 3 weeks and I wanted all 3 three weeks. Now I would never G-2 the course I want to experience the way others have experienced I don't want to know what's next. For all I know the instructors over at SWTG could change the whole course up and do it backwards. I just asked because I have heard the idea more than once. The idea and the excuses of why it didn't work. When I get to that great place called "Camp McKall," I want and know it's going to be a ride like no other, that's why i've completed the preparation book twice, not once but twice and all I do right now is think about what i need do to make sure that i'm prepared. I don't want to have an excuse. It's like Master Yoda says, "do or do not." I don't want to come back and be the supportsoldier with the stories of why i didn't make it ......
SupportSoldier
02-14-2005, 13:19
I would like to know if any of the Quiet Professionals, or SF candidates that have already completed SFAS have any memories from selection that makes them laugh everytime they think about it.
Sure,
The joke in my hut was when a guy quit. The first thing guys said "does he have a bottom bunk"? Or seeing a guy without his weapon on land and you point to yours and them to him, seeing the body language, the yell and the mad rush to go find it!!!
SupportSoldier wrote - I would like to know if any of the Quiet Professionals .....have any memories from selection that makes them laugh ....
In 1974 Pahse I was something that could not be explained, just experienced.
We lived in GP medium tents and slept on bed frames covered with a sheet of plywood. We could only have what was on the packing list and everything fit in our rucksacks or on our bodies.
We got up at something like 0500 every morning and had to immediately clean up for the day and pack our rucks and sit them on the end of the bunk. Every few minutes a TAC would put out over the loudspeaker "The carryall will depart for Fort Bragg at 0615".
At 0600 the Flag went up and we immediately dropped into the Front Leaning rest position for the Ballad of the Green Berets followed by pushups to any and all who ever put on a Green Beret.
The funny thing was that all the time between 0500 and 0600 you would see somebody sit down on their bunk and "zone out". We'd say "there goes another one". Within a few minutes they would pick up their ruck and walk over to the carryall. Every moning as we did our pushups we would be looking right at the quiters and saying to ourselves "That will never be me".
Heck, once you had your ruck packed the day was all down hill. Heck, once the morning formation was out of the way the day was all down hill. And so on, and so on and so on through the day, the next day and the next.
Pete
SupportSoldier
02-15-2005, 12:31
In both of those replies i found myself giggling. They were pretty funny. It's the harsh reality too. We had guys quit during Air Assault school like that. Every morning they ask you if u don't want to be here, fall out to the rear and pack your gear. It never failed that every morning we has one or two fall out.
In both of those replies i found myself giggling.
SuppotSoldier - It would be hard to find an SF guy giggling. Girls do that. I think your days will be numbered in the few not the many.
Some very quiet dude is going to mark your name down and you'll be gone before anybody can remember your name.
Prove us wrong, it's up to you.
Pete
Knowing this is one of my first posts, I will introduce myself. I am an 18C trainee awaiting Phase III, normally I would lurk but I feel I have experienced the wrath of posting the wrong things on an SF forum, so I am going to give SupportSoldier some advice.
SupportSoldier, just judging from what you've been posting you might want to quit. When I was awaiting PLDC/BNCOC I suffered from diahrea(sp?) of the mouth and made the mistake of downgrading the 82nd. That has nothing to do with you, but it made PLDC and Phase II a lot harder than it would have been normally. Getting to the point, I don't think you realize how small of a community SF is, everyone knows someone else than can make your life a living hell. The Quiet Professionals on this board have extreme influence and I would recommend not pissing them off.
Having said that, "Moving out and drawing fire"
CPTAUSRET
02-15-2005, 14:02
Knowing this is one of my first posts, I will introduce myself. I am an 18C trainee awaiting Phase III, normally I would lurk but I feel I have experienced the wrath of posting the wrong things on an SF forum, so I am going to give SupportSoldier some advice.
SupportSoldier, just judging from what you've been posting you might want to quit. When I was awaiting PLDC/BNCOC I suffered from diahrea(sp?) of the mouth and made the mistake of downgrading the 82nd. That has nothing to do with you, but it made PLDC and Phase II a lot harder than it would have been normally. Getting to the point, I don't think you realize how small of a community SF is, everyone knows someone else than can make your life a living hell. The Quiet Professionals on this board have extreme influence and I would recommend not pissing them off.
Having said that, "Moving out and drawing fire"
Raven:
Do I remember you from another board? Your story sounds familiar...
Terry
SupportSoldier
02-15-2005, 16:26
i don't mean it in a girlie way it was the kind of laugh that happens when you're next to guy in your squad and the Drill Sergeant is in his face and you're trying to hold it in . I know my days are not numbered. I'm gonna make it. It's a doggy dogg world, but I'll take the comment like a grain of salt. All my life I've proven Haters and hypocrites wrong so i'm good.......
I feel really stupid, but what is G2ing; did we have it in SFTG, and did I miss a really good deal?
I'm not exactly sure what G2ing might encompass either SP5IC. Never heard it mentioned when I went through SFTG. I don't think we missed out on any good deal, though. Just went where we were told and did what we had to.
I've always tended to embrace the "KISS principal" myself. :D
SupportSoldier
02-15-2005, 16:32
Yes, i know how small the community first hand. I've been at Fort Bragg for about 5 years. I know everybody there knows somebody and i don't mean to piss any of the quiet professionals, hell i've idolized them since, I first saw the John Wayne movie about them. i can tell you the duration of Barry Sadler's Ballad to the Green Beret is 2 minutes and 19 seconds. It's like this everyone comes from diff't walks of life and the way i seem to you i might seem to another but you take how you must. I'll just carry my cross and keep on going........
The Reaper
02-15-2005, 16:44
For those who are unfamiliar with the term, G2ing the course is trying to gain an unfair advantage by gathering intel about what the surprises in the course might be.
An example would be trying to determine the length of a run or ruck in advance when the point is to see if people put out their max effort for as long as they can.
Another would be to try and determine what scenarios might be encountered and what successful solutions might have worked in the past, when the scenario is intended to determine how well candidates think on their feet when confronted with a challenge.
This would more commonly be called cheating, or violating the Honor Code.
HTH.
TR
FYI, the phrase you were looking for was "its a dog-eat-dog" world, implying little mercy and viciousness. I suspect a 'doggy dog world' involves a great deal of bass and cameos in movies.
CPT,
I was subscribed for a time to SOCNET, you probably heard it there. I repeatedly monkey-stomped my dick, but my screw up was quickly brought to attention and corrected.
Swindleous
02-15-2005, 17:31
TR,
My father got me in contact with a retired SF op that he works with, and he was giving me general advice and things to look forward to. One thing he mentioned was after a particularly rough bit of PT or whatever they were making the candidates do, they went into the barracks and told everyone they had to be at some statue in some unbelievable amount of time for how tired everyone was. He said some guys quit right then and there, and that he and one of his buddies were the first ones out, and about a kilometer down the road they were picked up by a truck waiting for them. Are things like that what you're referring to?
I guess I'll introduce myself now as well, I'm a 20 year old college student in Northern Virginia, looking to enlist with an 18x contract in the summer. Just trying to absorb as much wisdom as I can from all you BTDTs. Thank you for your service :)
The Reaper
02-15-2005, 17:34
TR,
My father got me in contact with a retired SF op that he works with, and he was giving me general advice and things to look forward to. One thing he mentioned was after a particularly rough bit of PT or whatever they were making the candidates do, they went into the barracks and told everyone they had to be at some statue in some unbelievable amount of time for how tired everyone was. He said some guys quit right then and there, and that he and one of his buddies were the first ones out, and about a kilometer down the road they were picked up by a truck waiting for them. Are things like that what you're referring to?
I guess I'll introduce myself now as well, I'm a 20 year old college student in Northern Virginia, looking to enlist with an 18x contract in the summer. Just trying to absorb as much wisdom as I can from all you BTDTs. Thank you for your service :)
Damn, you know the exact program!
We sure couldn't fool you.
Come to Mackall and pick up your beret anytime.
TR
Swindleous
02-15-2005, 17:44
Damn, you know the exact program!
We sure couldn't fool you.
Come to Mackall and pick up your beret anytime.
TR
Alright cool, let me get a uniform first, I don't have anything to wear that will go with the beret. Can my friend get one too he looks really good in green :p
NousDefionsDoc
02-15-2005, 18:25
I'm a 20 year old college student
Yum Yum Chomp Chomp
NousDefionsDoc
02-15-2005, 18:29
Alright cool, let me get a uniform first, I don't have anything to wear that will go with the beret. Can my friend get one too he looks really good in green :p
You'd better tread lightly there stud. You keep running your suck at my Boss, your stay on this board will be about as long as your stay at Mackall
Swindleous
02-15-2005, 19:15
You'd better tread lightly there stud. You keep running your suck at my Boss, your stay on this board will be about as long as your stay at Mackall
I was just kidding around, no disrespect was intended.
The Reaper
02-15-2005, 19:42
Alright cool, let me get a uniform first, I don't have anything to wear that will go with the beret. Can my friend get one too he looks really good in green :p
No worries.
PM your names so that we can have your uniforms ready.
TR
Swindleous
02-15-2005, 19:57
No worries.
PM your names so that we can have your uniforms ready.
TR
Honestly I was a little disappointed he told the story to me, I'd like go in and have to put in as much if not more effort than all of those that have gone before me. He was just using it as anecdote to point out that a lot of the training is mind games. I still really have no clue what to expect and I'd like to keep it that way, and see it all for myself.
Desert Fox
02-15-2005, 21:52
A classic:
Just at my basic the staff really liked to bring us to "the farm" at whatever screw up they could "find". We didnt know what distance we were supposed to do. Once there was a truck and a stand full of oranges. The marching NCO was very tall (and with a very high pace for recruits). He said "the roads are closed to vehicles, we did half of it." Half of the platoon dropped. In that moment, the only difference was that we actually did less half of it!
CPTAUSRET
02-15-2005, 23:37
CPT,
I was subscribed for a time to SOCNET, you probably heard it there. I repeatedly monkey-stomped my dick, but my screw up was quickly brought to attention and corrected.
Stuff happens sometimes you need to grow up in a hurry, and pay the piper.
You evidently survived it as you are still in the system. In the long run you may even have benefitted from all the extra attention. I'm guessing the short run may have been a b*tch.
Terry
I'm guessing the short run may have been a b*tch.
Terry
Out at Camp MacKall in 74 Egerton and two of the younger Sgts would run us for our two miles every morning. They were fast as lightning and smoked us on every run. One morning a short, fairly thick looking TAC was standing out front as we fell in for PT.
He gave us the right face and we were off......At a, to us, very slow pace for PT. But he kept going, and going, and going. We had been going for over an hour and the sun had come up and we could see real good. And he kept going. We were twisting and turning down hard roads, dirt roads, trails and pine flats. And we kept going.
The chase vehicle knew where we were going because it would reappear when we came out of the trails onto the roads. People were falling out but would continue to trail after the formation. When they lost sight of the formation or started walking they were put on the truck.
We saw a big clearing coming up through the trees and said to ourselves "at last" but as we came out of the trees we saw we were on the far side of the airstrip. Then the old goat got his second wind and started to stretch it out for the front gate.
Nothing was said to us as we stopped in front of the flag pole and the stragglers who were still trying came through the gate and linked up with us. As we were standing there the chase truck came in the gate, over to the area our tents were at and let the guys out. They picked up their rucks out of the tents, got back on the truck and it departed for Fort Bragg.
That guy never took us on another run and boy were we ever thankful.
Stuff happens sometimes you need to grow up in a hurry, and pay the piper.
You evidently survived it as you are still in the system. In the long run you may even have benefitted from all the extra attention. I'm guessing the short run may have been a b*tch.
Terry
The short run was a mofo, but it made me realize those guys in the 82nd do their part too. They've paid their dues, especially the vets in their during the WWII timeframe. I had a lot of time in the front leaning rest to reconsider my opinions. :lifter
substantial
05-14-2008, 21:03
For those who are unfamiliar with the term, G2ing the course is trying to gain an unfair advantage by gathering intel about what the surprises in the course might be.
An example would be trying to determine the length of a run or ruck in advance when the point is to see if people put out their max effort for as long as they can.
Another would be to try and determine what scenarios might be encountered and what successful solutions might have worked in the past, when the scenario is intended to determine how well candidates think on their feet when confronted with a challenge.
This would more commonly be called cheating, or violating the Honor Code.
HTH.
TR
Gentlemen,
This site is an excellent resource for aspiring QPs. I’ve been reading for awhile now and had no intentions of making an introduction unless and until I signed an 18X contract and passed SFAS. However, there has been an ethical question that has been bugging me. I’ll get right to the point: Before I sign the contract, I plan on training in PT and land navigation until I feel confident enough at a high probability of success. Therefore, in a few months I plan to move to the Pinebluff area and conduct my training in the Sandhills Game Land. I think we can all agree that one should train like he fights (or in this case, train like he is tested). My question is whether training in the Sandhills for the purposes of succeeding in SFAS is an Honor Code violation? I am NOT trying to G2 the course, as I understand what G2ing means. Rather, my intent is to replicate the conditions of the testing environment as much as ethically possible. (i.e. climate and terrain)
I’m sorry if I am turning an anthill into a mountain with my concern. My original thought was that the Sandhills are public property, so there should not be a problem. Everyone has access to the Sandhills, so there is no unfair advantage. But then I started arguing the counterpoints to myself. (that’s what law school does to one) I’d rather ask a silly question than step on the toes of the very community that I am pursuing to join and work with.
Regards,
substantial
The Reaper
05-14-2008, 21:19
Sounds like you lack confidence.
You will be taught everything you need to know to land nav while you are at SFAS, other than how to be a soldier.
We teach people with GEDs to succeed at land nav, why are you so afraid of this task?
If the instructors see you runnign around in the woods, they will find out who you are, and that will not be a good thing.
Shouldn't you focus on Basic, AIT, and Airborne schools first?
TR
substantial
05-14-2008, 21:40
Thank you for the quick response TR. I’m cautious of land navigation because I have nearly zero experience with that skill and according to Major Martin’s book, land navigation is the second biggest disqualifier. (19.9%, page 5-1). I understand that I will receive land navigation training in OSUT and Phase 1a. I sometimes tend to overkill with preparation.
As far as whether training in the Sandhills is an Honor Code violation, you wrote that “if the instructors see you running around in the woods, they will find out who you are, and that will not be a good thing.” I’ll definitely take your word for it and stay away. Thank you Sir.