View Full Version : The Third Terrorist: The Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing."
NousDefionsDoc
02-12-2004, 21:39
I want this book! I'm calling my Moms! LOL
Posted: February 12, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were not the lone conspirators in the Oklahoma City bombing but were part of a greater scheme involving Islamic terrorists and at least one provable link to Iraq, according to a new release by WND Books.
Backed by stunning evidence, author Jayna Davis explains in detail the complete, and so far untold, story behind the failed investigation in The Third Terrorist: The Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing."
The investigative reporter who first broke the story of the Middle East connection, Davis shows why the FBI closed the door, what further evidence exists to prove the Iraqi connection, why it has been ignored and what makes it more relevant now than ever.
Told with a gripping narrative style and vetted by men such as former CIA director James Woolsey, Davis's piercing account is the first book to set the record straight about what really happened in the bombing that killed nearly 170 people in a few short seconds April 19, 1995.
Last April, Davis' reporting on the Oklahoma City bombing was vindicated when the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed a lawsuit filed against her after finding "defendants did not recklessly disregard the truth" in reporting on an Iraqi soldier's alleged involvement in the bombing.
"After eight years of oppressive litigation, the courts have vindicated my work ethic as a dedicated journalist," Davis told WorldNetDaily at the time. "The lawsuit was obviously designed to silence a legitimate investigation into Middle Eastern complicity in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing."
In an interview with WND in October 2001, attorney David Schippers, who prosecuted the House of Representatives' impeachment case against Bill Clinton, said his examination of the evidence Davis presented him was conclusive.
"I am thoroughly convinced that there was a dead-bang Middle Eastern connection in the Oklahoma City bombing," he said.
NDD Sir,
Please read "NO Heroes" by Danny "Doc" Coulson. Doc originated HRT after years in the field. He is quite the expert on the Right Wing "Turner Diaries" cults that sprang up during the early 80's to late 90's.
The 'connection' with Nichols/McVeigh is more closely related to the Christan Idendity and /or CSA movement than it is the foreignn terroist movement.
Not that this article is without merit, but after reading Doc Coulson's book, this is really a fantasy on the part of the author.
Just my opinion.
Sigi
NousDefionsDoc
02-13-2004, 00:06
I don't like the FBI. And don't call me sir.
Thanks for the recommendation.
http://www.jaynadavis.com/
Check her website. She has newspaper coverage and everything.
I am interested to see what she has to say. I wonder what proof she has to back up these claims. McVeigh spent an awful lot of time educating himself on the "Turner Diaries" and associating himself with the Christian Identity types. He was on a mission to make the government pay for Waco, specifically the ATF/FBI. The date of the WACO and OK City incidents were both April 19th.
I shouldn't pass judgement on her until I have read her book, but she would need to have something other than heresay and conspiracy theories for me to take her seriously. Some of what I have read concerning this subject offers very little accept endorsements to buy her book, including her website.
The Thrill of a Good Conspiracy
Iraq and the Oklahoma bombing case
By Cate McCauley
Few episodes in American history attracted more conspiracy theories than the Oklahoma bombing case. The idea that Iraq was actually involved with the 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City is a theory long ago dismissed--for good reasons. Sadly, after the attacks of 9-11, it reemerged with a vengeance.
"A few top Defense officials think Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh was an Iraqi agent," U.S. News & World Report's Paul Bedard wrote in his "Washington Whispers" column (10/29/01). "The theory stems from a never-before-reported allegation that McVeigh had allegedly collected Iraqi telephone numbers."
Insight magazine writer Kenneth Timmerman (4/15/02) took this a step further: "Sources tell Insight that the phone numbers apparently were contained in a sealed manila envelope that was turned over to the FBI unopened by the Oklahoma state troopers who arrested McVeigh. The FBI logged in the evidence as 'manila envelope with content,' but never disclosed what was inside."
In fact, that envelope and its contents--mostly right-wing propaganda--were discussed at length in court testimony and in the press (e.g., New York Times, 4/29/97). Until the "sources" or "top Defense officials" can produce a piece of paper with Iraqi phone numbers on it, written in McVeigh’s distinct penmanship, this is nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor.
From envelopes to Manila
Another cornerstone of the Iraqi-Oklahoma bombing connection is the claim that McVeigh co-conspirator Terry Nichols met with convicted World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef during Nichols' travels to the Philippines. These speculations were based on an informant named Edwin Angeles, a founding member of Abu Sayyaf, an Islamacist guerrilla movement operating in the southern Philippines.
"In fact, the groups that were operating in the Philippines, Abu Sayyaf in particular, were involved with Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh," Larry Johnson, a former U.S. State Department employee turned terrorism expert, told Fox News viewers (O’Reilly Factor, 5/7/02).
Insight's Timmerman (4/22/02) also pushed this theory: "The earliest meetings took place at a Del Monte canning plant in Davao in late 1992 and early 1993," he reported.
In Angeles’ official statement, made public prior to the McVeigh trial, he claimed to have attended a meeting in 1992 or 1993 with Yousef and two Americans--one of whom, known only as the "farmer," was assumed by some to have been Terry Nichols.
But Nichols was not in the Philippines at all in 1992. The only time he was there in 1993, from late January to mid-February, Yousef was in the New York City area executing his attack on the World Trade Center, which occurred on February 26, 1993. Therefore, at the time Angeles claimed to have attended a meeting with Nichols and Yousef, these two men were half a world apart.
Multiplying meetings
Although the story was easily debunked, the Angeles tale was accepted as fact, and continued to grow.
Timmerman (Insight, 5/6/02) reported that "later meetings with Nichols [and] Yousef … took place at Angeles' house in late 1994." He referred matter-of-factly to "Angeles' second wife, who had prepared the meals for Nichols and Yousef. "
Wait a minute! In his official statement, Angeles--who died in 1999--never mentioned any 1994 meeting, nor did he identify the "farmer" as Nichols. Neither did anyone else. Where did these embellishments come from?
James Patterson, who has zealously promoted these theories for several months in his Indianapolis Star editorials, provided an answer. The source was the Manila Times, which he quoted (2/23/02): "Before slain Abu Sayyaf Group co-founder Edwin Angeles surrendered in 1994…he met with Ramzi Yousef…. That meeting…was unique--in that the group was meeting for the last time with … Terry Nichols."
Patterson added: "The Philippine terrorist network has communicated in the past with American right-wing dissidents, including executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and accomplice Terry Nichols. Nichols traveled to that country more than half a dozen times between November 1994 and January 1995."
In the same article Patterson relied upon, the Manila Times also claimed that McVeigh attended one of these meetings, even though, in reality, he never traveled to the Philippines. Additionally, Patterson misreported Nichols’ travels. It’s well-established that he only went to the Philippines once--not "more than half a dozen times"--during that timeframe.
The deceased widow's story
Patterson's exaggerations derived from a highly questionable source:
"In a death-bed interview … Elmina Abdul told correspondent Dorian Zumel Sicat that her husband Edwin Angeles had met with Nichols and another unidentified American in 1994" (Indianapolis Star, 4/6/02). Days later, Patterson elaborated on this hearsay: Now Angeles was said to have met someone named "Terry" every day for a week in 1994 to talk about bombings (Indianapolis Star, 4/27/02).
Were there any nefarious meetings in 1994? No. Nichols’ wife, family and friends were investigated thoroughly. No one ever said strange people met with him, or that he disappeared for any lengths of time. There were no mysterious phone calls or travel, nothing to indicate involvement with any Filipino terrorists.
Besides, Nichols was in the Philippines only a few weeks before Angeles was taken into custody. If this alleged 1994 meeting really happened, why didn’t Angeles, or anyone else, say so back then? Couldn’t that have prevented the deaths in Oklahoma?
And how reliable was the Manila Times? In one of Timmerman’s postings (Insightmag.com, 4/22/02), we are told that the paper's reporter, Dorian Sicat, was "serving as an investigative liaison in the Philippines and the Pacific Rim for Oklahoma City lawyer Mike Johnston."
Johnston is one the attorneys who, along with Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch, filed a lawsuit in March 2002 on behalf a few Oklahoma bombing survivors, seeking $1.5 billion in damages from Iraq. If Sicat is working for a lawyer engaged in a suit against Iraq, that would seriously compromise his stance as an impartial journalist.
Editors at the Manila Times and Indianapolis Star declined an invitation to review the evidence.
O'Reilly's "bigger picture"
In the world of conspiracies, rumor and hearsay are like a runaway train. Even worse are the presumed connections between the bombing in Oklahoma and the attacks of September 11.
Bill O’Reilly recently pondered aloud (O'Reilly Factor, 5/7/02): "It gives a bigger picture that this [Oklahoma] may have been the first attack, and 9-11 might have been the second attack…on American soil by organized terrorist groups. Now, is there an al-Qaeda connection at all?"
Since the question was based on his theories, guest Larry Johnson naturally responded: "I think that's very likely. One of the things that's evident right now in connection with this investigation, the motel in Oklahoma City where the April bombing against the Murrah building was planned and executed from, that same hotel figures in two of the 9-11 hijackers and Zacarias Moussaoui…. Those three guys tried to check into that motel."
According to Johnson’s chat with this motel owner, in late July or early August 2001, Moussaoui and these September 11 hijackers asked for a room and mentioned "going for flight training."
But no connection between "that motel" and the Oklahoma bombing case was ever substantiated. And evidence reported in Moussaoui’s published indictment shows the hijackers in question--both whom already had pilot licenses--were most likely in Florida during that timeframe. There is no evidence to show that either traveled to Oklahoma in 2001.
These are only a few examples of how easily journalists can be derailed by a lack of background information and analysis, especially when it comes to the Oklahoma bombing case. While everyone may enjoy the thrill of a good conspiracy, the downside of this sort of reporting is more pain and confusion for terrorism survivors--as well as for the general public, who are left to wonder if any of these unsubstantiated theories are true.
Cate McCauley researched the Oklahoma City bombing case for many years. A private investigator licensed by the State of Oklahoma, she was appointed to the McVeigh federal appellate team and was one of the witnesses to his execution.
In case anyone is wondering what the hell Nichols was doing in the Phillipines, that is where he picked up his 'mail order' wife.
NousDefionsDoc
02-13-2004, 12:10
Originally posted by Sigi
In case anyone is wondering what the hell Nichols was doing in the Phillipines, that is where he picked up his 'mail order' wife.
Who apparently was friends with another woman that knew (well?) a known terrorist.
Where did Nichols get the money to do all this traveling? I read where he was unemployed during this time period.
Investigated thoroughly by who?
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Who apparently was friends with another woman that knew (well?) a known terrorist.
Where did Nichols get the money to do all this traveling? I read where he was unemployed during this time period.
Investigated thoroughly by who?
It’s well-established that he only went to the Philippines once--not "more than half a dozen times"--during that timeframe.
I am a skeptic. I have faith in God, all others need proof.
NousDefionsDoc
02-13-2004, 13:10
It’s well-established that he only went to the Philippines once--not "more than half a dozen times"--during that timeframe.
This is my point Sigi - I don't think anybody on our side took the time to well-establish shit. Look at how long it took them to fully understand WTC 1. I want to know how it was well-established by whom. The FBI is a political organization. I find it easier to believe that they found what they thought they would find, it fit the profile and the need, and they stopped than: Those two rednecked asses planned, funded and implemented the 2nd worst terrorist attack on US soil by themselves. Is it possible? Absolutely. Is ME involvement possible?
I'll let you in on another little secret - the FBI ain't all that good at investigating terrorism overseas.
On the other hand, didn't McVeigh try to join SF but was too flaky? So he gets turned down and he's mad and figures fine! I'll go join up with the Middle Eastern terrorists? That'll fix 'em good. turn me down, mutter, mutter...
It doesn't make sense. Agreed blowing up government buildings doesn't make sense either but throwing in with foreigners, renting a Ryder truck and using fertilizer to blow up a government building. One of these things is not like the others.
NousDefionsDoc
02-13-2004, 15:35
What type of vehiculo was used at WTC 1? What type of device?
Roguish Lawyer
02-13-2004, 15:44
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
What type of vehiculo was used at WTC 1? What type of device?
I'm your huckleberry.
I believe it was a van. The 600 kilogram bomb was made of urea pellets, nitroglycerin, sulfuric acid, aluminum azide, magnesium azide, and bottled hydrogen. Sodium cyanide was added to the mix in the hope it would poison people after blasting through the ventilation system and elevator shafts.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing
According to the site you posted it was actually a Ryder van. Ok, I take it back. Maybe they are alike. McVeigh and Co may have gotten the idea from the first bombing at the WTC but I still don't buy the idea that they linked up with ME terrorists and plotted with foreigners against the US. I think they were too angry for that.
It's feasible that we grow our very own domestic terrorists.
NousDefionsDoc
02-13-2004, 16:40
I'm not saying they didn't do it by themselves. I'm saying there are things, that I consider critical, that haven't been investigated or cleared up.
It wouldn't surprise me if it came out that they did it all by their lonesomes. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they had help. BUT I WANT TO KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
NousDefionsDoc
02-15-2004, 17:13
Its been 48 hours.
That means we're agreed, I'm right and everybody else is wrong.
Has anyone read the book?
I don't think the day will ever come when I say you are wrong, NDD. :D
You definitely made me think about the possibilities. There are things to consider. McVeigh had a calling card under his alias (Kling) that he used to put together the OKCity bombing. He made calls to his conspirators (Nichols, another man and his wife), the places he bought the fertilizer and racing fuel, three or four Christian militia leaders, and maybe a few more related to the "operation." No Islamic connection to any of them (that I know of.)
He saw himself as a protector of America, but hated the Government. Like I said, he wanted to avenge Waco, of which he was present for much of the ordeal, holding signs protesting the FBI and the ATF. He did claim to love America and did not want to see it destroyed. He specifically chose the Mullah Building because it supposedly was ATF and FBI HQ for OK. Not true, but he thought it was.
He was also a pat rack, keeping specific articles, items and correspondence pertaining to Christian Identity groups, Waco, and Aryan groups, and whole host of other anti-government info. No Islamic literature to speak of that I know. Nichols was the same way. Between these two you would think there would be evidence to a connection to Islamic terrorism. If there was I have yet to find that evidence. I have only read two books on this, so obviously my education is in its infancy just yet. But my curiousity will get the better of me and I will seek out material as soon as I finish the two books I started.
I am not saying the possibility does not exist of a connection. I just don't have any information to back that up. Doc Coulson talks about investigations in depth in "No Heroes." He mentions collecting evidence and leads and see where they take the case, rather than come up with a theory and find evidence that supports that theory. He was very adamant about this and did admit that some lawyers with the U.S. Attorney's office and other agencies (ATF/DEA/FBI, etc...) have done this. I don't think that they collected evidence to support a single theory.
He convinced me that the investigation into OKBOMB (the official FBI name of the case) was investigated throughly and correctly. Who am I to dispute that unless I have other evidence, which I don't have. That is why I am curious as to what NEW evidence Jayna Davis presents.
For now I remained convinced that McVeigh and Nichols were motivated by a hate for the government, revenge for Waco (April 19th), an infatuation with the "Turner Diaries" ( http://members.odinsrage.com/turner/turner_diaries.html ), and his obvious connection to Christian Militia groups dating back to before his enlistment in the Army and growing ever more after he failed Selection into SF's.
So you're not wrong, but now you got me thinking the jury may be out.
Let's say there was an Islamic/McVeigh conspiracy. How deep do you think it was? Funding?
Originally posted by lrd
Has anyone read the book?
Ird,
Jayna Davis' book comes out mid-March.
Originally posted by Sigi
Ird,
Jayna Davis' book comes out mid-March. Thanks.
DunbarFC
02-26-2004, 21:45
You might also want to pick up " The New Jackals " by Simon Reive
It's about Ramzi Yousef and OBL written in 1998
Talks about the coming rise of Islamic terror.
In it he mentions Oklahoma City and the possible connection between Nichols and Phillipine muslims. If half what he writes is true there is at least some cause to look into this further
Then again it could just be Oliver Stone time
ghuinness
04-10-2004, 21:28
Anyone had the opportunity to read this yet?
Noticed it in the bookstore this weekend.
thanks
Discovery Times Ch. 10am and 6pm EST.
Today.
"Chronicling the April 1995 bombing and the stories of the victims, rescuers and law enforcement officials involved."
Don't know if anyone has seen it yet, but I haven't.
Bill Harsey
05-28-2004, 08:32
Originally posted by Sigi
NDD Sir,
Please read "NO Heroes" by Danny "Doc" Coulson. Doc originated HRT after years in the field. He is quite the expert on the Right Wing "Turner Diaries" cults that sprang up during the early 80's to late 90's.
The 'connection' with Nichols/McVeigh is more closely related to the Christan Idendity and /or CSA movement than it is the foreignn terroist movement.
Not that this article is without merit, but after reading Doc Coulson's book, this is really a fantasy on the part of the author.
Sigi Sigi is our left wing liberal plant here, he just used the terms "right wing cult" and "Christian Identity" to color Nichols/McVeigh as nothing more than right wing whackos. The problem with this as NDD has said is that it keeps us from looking any further. NDD is also very correct about the FBI's investigative skills. That comment will cost me a salmon fishing buddy.
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Sigi is our left wing liberal plant here
Ouch. That hurt. :eek:
I will admit that I have never read any books on the Ok City Bombing, just No Heroes, which admittedly gives only the opinion of one of the lead FBI investigators. I am still unconvinced of a connection with Muslims, but I have yet to read Jayna Davis' book.
This sight is somewhat informative on the Ok City Bombing:
http://www.okcbombing.org/index.htm
The mission of the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee, a non-profit organization, is to find the whole truth about the fatal attack on the Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995. Through extensive eyewitness interviews and research, the Committee is working to bring all those responsible to justice. Evidence presented at this web site is documented, compiled from more than four years of investigation.
Bill Harsey
05-28-2004, 09:10
Originally posted by Sigi
Ouch. That hurt. :eek:
Said with great love and respect Sigi! Our media has trained the public to dismiss anything "right wing". This is done by associating a key word or two with the individual or group in question. Once that's done the person or group cannot recover, in the publics eyes, from the label. Often this results in the incorrect conclusions, especially about domestic terrorism.
Here is another one:
http://jaynadavis.com/
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Said with great love and respect Sigi!
Absolutely no offense taken, Sir.
I agree that "right wing" does carry negative connotations. It's like listening/watching CBS/NBS/ABC nightly news where they have two members of congress, one a Democrat and one a Republican.
The Democrat is simply the "Representative from (enter state here)", but the Republican is the "Conservative Representative."
Hey, wouldn't that make the Democrat the "Liberal" Representative? Just stuff I notice.
Bill Harsey
05-28-2004, 09:35
Thanks Sigi, You can't see my smile while I'm writing...good observation on the media, I don't like being lied to by either side. time to get in the shop, out here for now. Bill
Sacamuelas
05-28-2004, 13:07
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Our media has trained the public to dismiss anything "right wing". This is done by associating a key word or two with the individual or group in question. Once that's done the person or group cannot recover, in the publics eyes, from the label.
Your right as always Bill, damn media has conditioned us to disregard anything labeled "right wing". I am a proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy...:D
DunbarFC
05-28-2004, 13:25
I got one of those too Sac
What was your donation ?
:D
Sacamuelas
05-28-2004, 13:54
Crazy thing is... I haven't donated anything lately. They were hitting me up for some future contribution. Damn right wing conspiracy groups are demanding. haha
I think about 51% of the population has gotten one already. I hope it works. :D
NousDefionsDoc
08-22-2004, 11:43
http://intellectualconservative.com/article3617.html
NousDefionsDoc
08-30-2004, 15:02
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/07-26-2004/okc.htm
I'm moving this thread to the terrorism forum.
NousDefionsDoc
11-26-2004, 15:47
SLC lawyer: FBI likely knew of Oklahoma bombing plot
Seeking disclosure: In a court filing, he wants the agency to provide an unedited 1995 memo and a related report about his brother's death in prison
By Pamela Manson
The Salt Lake Tribune
The FBI "in all likelihood" had advance notice of the Oklahoma City bombing plot but did nothing to prevent the attack, a Salt Lake City lawyer claims.
Attorney Jesse Trentadue alleges an informant infiltrated a white supremacist compound in Oklahoma and learned Timothy McVeigh was trying to recruit accomplices there about two weeks before the April 19, 1995, bombing.
This information probably was relayed to the FBI before the bombing, the lawyer contends in a document filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City.
Trentadue has sued the FBI, alleging it is violating the federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) by refusing to turn over documents connected to the 1995 death of his brother in an Oklahoma prison.
As evidence that the agency has failed to do a proper search for the records he wants, he points to a FBI memorandum sent to members of a task force investigating the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people.
Although he specifically requested that memo, the FBI claimed it either did not exist or could not be located, Trentadue says in court documents. Yet Trentadue - who does not say how he obtained a copy - filed in court a print copy of a heavily edited electronic memo dated Jan. 4, 1996.
The memo also has been mentioned in prior media reports in Oklahoma.
It is unclear who wrote the memo, which appears to have been sent to FBI offices in several cities. It states someone affiliated with the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights group, was at a white supremacist compound in April 1995, when one of the Oklahoma bombing suspects allegedly called looking for a co-conspirator.
The name of the caller is blacked out, but the person is described as one of the two indicted defendants in the bombing. The two defendants were McVeigh, who was executed in 2001 for the crime, and Terry Nichols, who is serving a life sentence.
An employee at the Department of Justice, which represents the FBI in the lawsuit, said Wednesday that no one was available for comment on the memo. The department in the past has declined to talk about pending legal actions.
A call to FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C., was not returned Wednesday.
Trentadue is pursuing the document because he believes the investigation of the bombing holds clues to his brother's death.
Kenneth Trentadue, 44, was being held on an alleged parole violation in a federal prison in Oklahoma City when guards found him dead on Aug. 21, 1995, hanging from a noose made of torn bed sheets. His family insists he was killed and contend correctional officials destroyed evidence; authorities have denied the allegations and contend he committed suicide. Several investigations also ruled the death a suicide.
Trentadue believes the FBI mistakenly suspected his brother was part of a gang that robbed banks to fund attacks on the government, and that authorities killed him “when things got out of hand” during an interrogation.
Trentadue believes that at one time, the FBI was investigating whether the bank robbers were connected to the bombing.
FBI agents have said there was no connection between the six bank robbery gang suspects who were arrested and McVeigh and Nichols. One agent, testifying in a state murder trial against Nichols last spring, said the only link was that the robbers had connections to an Elohim City, Okla., supremacist compound, and there was evidence McVeigh called there once.
As part of his own probe into Kenneth's death, Trentadue had asked the FBI for records related to the robbers. According to his suit, an anonymous caller told him a few months after his brother died that his brother, a convicted bank robber, had been murdered because he fit a profile of the gang members.
The FBI responded it has followed FOIA procedures and has asked U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball in Salt Lake City to dismiss the suit.
In turn, Trentadue on Tuesday asked the judge to order the agency to produce two specific documents: An unedited copy of the 1995 FBI memo and a report he believes was prepared after an FBI agent and two assistant U.S. attorneys investigating his brother's death interviewed him a year later.
NousDefionsDoc
01-22-2005, 13:10
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/2004_02_23_archive.html
I don't know anything about Intelwire
Explosives Recipes Tie OKC to al Qaeda Manuals
Intelligence officials are now investigating possible connections in global bomb designs as evidence of terrorist cooperation, an avenue that has significant ramifications for the Oklahoma City bombing.
A U.S. intelligence forensic expert told the New York Times this week that "linkages have been made in devices that have been used in different continents. We know that we have the same bomb maker, or different bomb makers are using the same instructions."
INTELWIRE has analyzed much of the available material on al Qaeda bomb manuals in the U.S. during the early 1990s and found numerous potential links between those manuals and the Oklahoma City bombing. A 2002 indictment alleged that an alias used by Mohammed Jamal Khalifa was found on one of several bomb-making manuals brought into the U.S. in 1992 by an accomplice of Ramzi Yousef. Those manuals included detailed instructions about how to build improvised explosives, including recipes for urea nitrate (used in the World Trade Center attack) and ammonium nitrate (used in Oklahoma City), according to trial records.
The manuals included instructions on the use and handling of every major component currently believed to have been part of the Oklahoma City bomb, including ammonium nitrate, nitromethane, PETN, blasting caps and instructions on creating shaped charges for use in destroying buildings.
The manuals also contained entries on using hydrogen peroxide and aluminum powder. Ammonium nitrate, hydrogen peroxide, aluminum powder, diesel fuel and blasting caps were found at the Michigan farm of James Nichols, brother of Terry, during an FBI search around April 21, according to a criminal complaint filed in April 1995 but subsequently dropped.
The Bojinka airline-bombing plot, exposed by an accidental fire in Yousef's Manila apartment in early January 1995, resulted in the arrest of Abdul Hakim Murad (who later claimed responsibility in the Oklahoma bombing).
A spiral-bound notebook seized when Murad was arrested contained a page of instructions on the properties of nitromethane, one of the Oklahoma City bomb components, according to evidence presented at Murad's trial. Murad had used the notebook to record instructions on bomb-making provided by Yousef, who is universally considered an explosives genius.
The notation on nitromethane is located in a section of the notebook that can be dated to late December 1994, at which time Terry Nichols was staying in the Philippines, according to trial testimony.
The entry on nitromethane appears to differ from other content in the notebook, which consisted largely of shopping lists for the Bojinka plot and notes on the manufacture of chemicals specifically used in that plan, as described at length during Murad's trial. Nitromethane was used in the Bojinka plan, but not as a primary explosive material, according to trial testimony and classified documents cited in Seeds of Evil, a 2004 book on al Qaeda by CNN correspondent Maria Ressa.
The basic idea for the Oklahoma City bomb is widely thought to have been inspired by the racist novel "The Turner Diaries," which describes white supremacists using an ammonium nitrate-fuel oil bomb to blow up FBI headquarters. According to Peter Lance, author of 1000 Years for Revenge, Ramzi Yousef employed a similar ammonium nitrate-diesel fuel oil bomb in a thwarted attempt to destroy the Israeli embassy in Bangkok just a few months earlier, in March 1994.
McVeigh and Nichols followed the "Turner" blueprint closely, but the choice to replace fuel oil with nitromethane was a deviation that made the bomb more powerful. The specific recipe appears to have been first used in Oklahoma City.
Subsequent to the Oklahoma City bombing, ammonium nitrate bombs became a favorite weapon of al Qaeda, and have frequently been used in attacks connected with Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, one of the Manila plotters.
A bomb manual found in Afghanistan contained a recipe for an ammonium nitrate-based bomb marked with the handrwritten notation "Was used in Oklahoma," according to the New York Times.
The Reaper
01-22-2005, 13:16
IMHO, the theory is BS.
The recipe for the bomb, which has long been available from old military manuals and Paladin Press publications is more info the the public really needs to know.
TR
IMHO, the theory is BS.
The recipe for the bomb, which has long been available from old military manuals and Paladin Press publications is more info the the public really needs to know.
TR
Concur. Even before the massisve influx of open sourcing on the internet, these AN & UR recipies were published and refined. The VBIED configuration is not the angle to tie in foreign involvement. Questions will always linger and fuel conspiracy theories on any major incident. Add to the mix a lead (aforementioned) investigative agency who IMO can't find it shadow with the sun behind them, and the conspiracy theories will continue to grow unanswered/unchecked.
NousDefionsDoc
04-01-2005, 22:25
yeah, they got everything and all of them.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/01/nichols.house.search.ap/index.html
Quote:
FBI finds explosives in Nichols home
Tip led to search of bombing conspirator's house in Kansas
Friday, April 1, 2005 Posted: 10:56 PM EST (0356 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tipped they may have missed evidence a decade ago, FBI agents searched the former home of convicted Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols and found blasting caps and other explosive materials apparently related to the 1995 attack, officials said Friday.
FBI officials said the material was found buried in a crawl space of the house in Herington, Kansas, which wasn't checked by agents during the numerous searches of the property during the original investigation of Nichols and Timothy McVeigh.
"The information so far indicates the items have been there since prior to the Oklahoma City bombing," Agent Gary Johnson said in a telephone interview from Oklahoma City.
FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza said in Kansas the materials were found in boxes, much of them wrapped in plastic, and were being sent to the FBI lab for analysis. The FBI is operating on the assumption the evidence was from the original Oklahoma plot, he said.
In coming days, agents will be looking for any fingerprints and other clues on the evidence that might show where the explosives originated and who may have possessed them before they got into Nichols' home.
Attorney: Hoax or major failure
The extraordinary discovery, just three weeks from the 10th anniversary of the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people, is likely to prove a new embarrassment to an FBI already burned by missteps in this case and the pre-September 11 period.
Nichols, who is serving multiple life prison sentences on federal and state charges, hasn't lived at the property in years, and FBI officials said the information that led to the discovery indicated Nichols had buried the evidence before the attack on April 19, 1995.
One of Nichols' attorneys said Friday the discovery was either a hoax or a major failure by the FBI to find all evidence after searching the home numerous times.
"They were there often," said attorney Brian Hermanson, who represented Nichols in last year's Oklahoma state murder trial that ended with Nichols' conviction. "It's surprising. I would think they would have done their job and found everything that was there."
"But I'm still suspicious that it could be something planted there," Hermanson said. "The house was empty for several years and if somebody wanted to put something there to incriminate Terry they had plenty of time to have done it."
Dan Defenbaugh, the retired FBI agent who ran the Oklahoma City investigation, said he was dismayed that his agency may have missed the evidence. "When you do a search warrant of that importance, you have to make sure it's thorough," he said.
Under a foot of rock, dirt and gravel
FBI agents went to the property Thursday night and then summoned a bomb squad after finding the potentially dangerous materials, Lanza said. The search ended late Friday afternoon and the evidence was being shipped to the FBI lab outside Washington.
Lanza said the material was buried in the crawl space under about a foot of rock, dirt and gravel, an area that had not been searched during the original investigation.
"Depending on the situation, that's something that may not necessarily be searched, especially given the fact that there was no information there was anything in there, and even if you searched the crawl space at that time and dug through the rock and rubble you wouldn't find anything until you went at least a foot down," he said.
Lanza said the information that spurred the search indicated that "Nichols was responsible for hiding these devices" and "we are operating under the assumption that Terry Nichols put them there."
Nichols and McVeigh, who was put to death for his role in the Oklahoma City bombing, had used blasting caps, fertilizer and fuel to make the bomb used to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
McVeigh's trial lawyer said Friday he has known some materials gathered for the attack were never located by the FBI and this discovery could answer some of those questions. But he added it also could prove to be another black eye for the FBI, which was criticized for causing a delay in McVeigh's execution after it found new documents in the case.
"I think it is clearly embarrassing if it turns out to be true," McVeigh attorney Stephen Jones said. "We've gone from not producing everything for the defendants to failing to recover from one of the conspirator's homes evidence that clearly is material."
Georgia Rucker has owned the house in Kansas since 1997 and rented it several times. She said Thursday the last tenant was evicted in October and she had been preparing the home for sale. Rucker said she was contacted by two FBI agents Thursday and gave permission for authorities to search the premises.
Last year, the FBI ordered a review of some aspects of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing investigation after a series of Associated Press stories identified evidence that the lead investigator in the case said had never been shown to his team.
The evidence raised questions about whether a group of white supremacist bank robbers might have had some connection to the attack.
In 100 years, they'll find a Muslim link.
NousDefionsDoc
04-01-2005, 22:28
I wonder if they ever found their guns and computers?
The Reaper
04-01-2005, 22:47
Well, since the main suspect was executed faster than anyone else in the past 30 years, and we are unable to question him further, we may never know.
TR
Read this today, what do you all think?
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153635,00.html
Did Oklahoma City Bombers Have Help?
Saturday, April 16, 2005
One month after the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing (search) that killed 168 people, authorities demolished what was left of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building (search).
Officials said the implosion was a necessary part of the psychological recovery for the citizens of Oklahoma City. But critics question the FBI’s tactics and argue the building came down too soon and the implosion is one piece of a government cover-up.
Survivor VZ Lawton remembers the events after the attack.
“I was in my office at my desk signing papers and all of a sudden the building began to shake,” said Lawton. “The lights went out, debris started falling and then something hit me on the head and knocked me out before the truck bomb ever went off.”
Lawton and some others believe Timothy McVeigh (search) — who was convicted of federal conspiracy and murder charges in the bombing and executed in 2001 — and convicted conspirator Terry Nichols (search) weren't alone in plotting the attack.
During the investigation the FBI circulated sketches of “John Does” and in response received thousands of conflicting tips from across the country.
Editor's Note: Watch the FOX News Channel on Sunday at 9 p.m. EDT for "The Oklahoma City Bombing: Unanswered Questions." And check out FOXNews.com on Monday for a story showing how FBI agents are convinced they got the right men.
The FBI quickly identified Timothy McVeigh as John Doe No. 1 — the man who rented the Ryder Truck used in the deadly plot. But, the FBI discounted dozens of eyewitness statements about a John Doe No. 2. And some ask why.
"The government tried to tell us that there was no John Doe 2 in the truck with McVeigh," Lawton said. "We got witnesses that saw him in the truck, saw him get out of the truck, walk across the street and get into a brown Chevrolet pickup with two more John Doe 2's. That makes three."
A number of eyewitnesses said they saw McVeigh with other men at a variety of locations in Oklahoma and Kansas before the attack. Some accounts put McVeigh with other men on the morning of the bombing — but the FBI has ruled them out.
Pictures made from surveillance video at the Regency Tower Apartments are the only images related to the attack that have been released to the public.
Oklahoma City attorney Michael Johnston said the FBI was not given all the tapes from as many as twenty-five cameras that he says were in and around the Murrah Building.
“If they're really non-consequential, it wouldn't hurt anything. If indeed they show something I think the American public, after a decade, has the right to know,” he said.
Johnston, on behalf of twenty-five victims’ families, filed a Freedom of Information (FOI) request for all of the surveillance videos. FOX News also filed a FOI request. The FBI has denied both cases on account that the case is still open.
"We can’t expect to get that footage until after that case is closed and then I think you will," said FBI agent Jon Hersley.
Racial Tie to Bombing?
Another surveillance tape of interest might have shown McVeigh with some notorious bank robbers, but the FBI admits the video was destroyed.
“There's also some bank robbery surveillance tapes that were disposed of in some way that could've involved McVeigh with the Midwest robbery gang. There's just a lot of unanswered questions there,” former FBI agent Danny Coulson said.
Between the years of 1992 and 1996, a gang of white separatists who called themselves the Aryan Republican Army robbed banks throughout the Midwest and stole nearly $500,000 before being caught. Rumors have persisted that the ARA was tied to McVeigh.
“The Midwest bank robbers of course are somebody that should be looked at. Terrorists historically finance their operations through bank robbery, armored car robbery,” Coulson said. “Coincidences just aren't coincidences, there's some reason for it.”
Peter Langan, one of the gang’s leaders who is serving a life sentence for his role in the robberies, told FOX News in an exclusive interview that some of the Midwest bank robbers were involved in the Oklahoma City bombing.
“Yes I do [believe members of the Aryan Republican Army were involved],” Langan said. “No doubt whatsoever.”
McVeigh's sister, Jennifer, in her own sworn deposition said: "My brother remarked that the money he had in his possession represented his share of the bank robbery proceeds."
Some argue the FBI should have looked harder at phone records they used to track McVeigh and Nichols. The records might hold ignored or missed clues that call for a wider investigation, especially the number of calls McVeigh made to the Philippines.
“It's amazing to me that not more has been made of those phone records,” Johnston said.
Repeated calls were made from Terry Nichols' home to a place called Star Glad Lumber in the Philippines.
“Star Glad Lumber is operated by a man whose brother and cousin were both notorious terrorists, splinter groups of the Abu Sayyaf terror group in the Philippines,” according to Johnston, the attorney.
Nichols also repeatedly called a boarding house in Cebu City, an establishment that has been linked to 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Ramzi Yousef (search). The same kind of ANFO fertilizer fuel bomb was used in New York and in Oklahoma City.
Finally, in McVeigh's trial the prosecution alleged that the bombing was financed by a robbery of an Arkansas gun dealer named Roger Moore. But Langan doesn't agree.
"Moore had himself robbed ... so he could put firearms in the black market without having liability himself," Langan said.
Asked if he believed Moore was not a victim, but part of the scam, Langan told FOX News: "Correct."
FOX News' Rita Cosby, Clay Rawson and Peter Russo contributed to this report.
The Oklahoma City Bombing: Unanswered Questions
FOX News Channel Apr 17 09:00pm
AHhhhh...., the infamous books bearing the phrase: "For Informational and Academical Purposes Only!" :)
on the History Channel they have a show called Conspiracy?
Today it went over the Oklahoma City Bombing
Rather interesting commentary from former FBI agents and eye witnesses.
If you can catch it, I suggest watching it.
Kinda reminds me of an incident that happened a few years ago in a classroom full of Deputies & Police Officers. The class was hosted by the Secret Service and dealt with Dignatary Protection. The Agent teaching it was a veteran of 5 President's. Somewhere during the hours long class he jumped off track and made the following statement out loud: And I guess you all believe that Vince Foster commited suicide too, If you beleive that one I also have ocean front property in Colorado to sell you!" Out of 40-50 of us there, only my partner and I looked at each other in disbelief. We were probably the only ones who knew who he was and what the Agent had just said. On top of that, after class, he told us that he was "on-duty" that morning and that things around the House were in chaos. He wouldn't answer the question of who killed him but did say the White House would know. Boy, the things you hear when you don't have a recorder. :rolleyes:
NousDefionsDoc
04-20-2006, 22:20
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12387753/
Interview with Nichols' son.