View Full Version : ATF Report on Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs and the Military
69harley
02-03-2011, 08:18
A college from Ft. Bragg sent me a copy of this. Was very surprised to see so many active duty senior NCOs involved with gangs. At the very end there are some recommendations for NC military to report active duty members and contractors working on base. Wow.
http://publicintelligence.info/ATF-OMGmilitary2010.pdf
I'm not surprised at all. My boyfriend retired out of SF last year as a SGM and was approached several times over the years. I've dealt with Outlaws and Black Pistons in Charlotte.
Those guys are nice and would NEVER do anything criminal, doncha know? :rolleyes:
I knew a guy in one out in Hope Mills. My band played a gig there. Good club.
ATF don't always have their facts straight though. The Gunfighters MC, which the report listed a young Sgt. a member of, is a LEO MC. At one time, ATF even listed the Blue Knights, which is the world's largest LEO MC, as OMG. OTOH, I recognized Dan Silcose's name. Worked with him at SFAS. He used to be 7th Grp I think. There used to be several of the guys at SFAS that were Veterans MC. I didn't see them listed though.
I recognized a few names also. Including the one who got in the scuffle with an SFMC member not to long ago....well, maybe a yr or so..
HHmmmm, not to good to be on a "watch" list.....'specially if ya got a clearance, or maybe it doesn't matter.
My OMG, The Polecats, was on a watch list out here in Arkansas for a while, but they got bored with the surveillance because we ride licker sickles.
Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
I partially answered my own question:
There does not appear to be any single military policy regarding membership in OMGs; policies seem to differ among the branches of service, among different commands, and from installation to installation
I would have thought this type of investigation was out of the BATFE's jurisdiction and more inline with the FBI does.....kind of reminds me of the evil groups in the MIAC report. Not to discount that some of the OMG's may cause problems, but we have MS13, Latin Kings and problems on the border that would to me personally seem more pressing than some Outlaw Bikers.
Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
Lots of MCs - some are known for on-going criminal activity and many are not - think about it.
Richard :munchin
Lots of MCs - some are known for on-going criminal activity and many are not - think about it.
Richard :munchin
I did Sir and I am aware of OMG's past activities. But I would wager MS13, Latin Kings, etc in service and in total numbers dwarf Outlaw Bikers.
Snaquebite
02-05-2011, 10:14
Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
Off the top of my head I would say no. OTOH, If the constitution or bylaws of said MC subverts the US Constitution or suggests/supports or outlines any criminal activity or outlines anything that is unlawful under UCMJ...... That's a different animal.
mojaveman
02-05-2011, 10:19
If you ever did a serious study on what type of people join outlaw motorcycle clubs it might surprise you. The better known ones actually include many professionals in their ranks. It's not like the old days when they were just a bunch of illiterate grease monkeys. They've actually become very sophisticated. And yes, many motorcycle clubs like to recruit Veterans because of their experience with weapons and tactics.
I did Sir and I am aware of OMG's past activities. But I would wager MS13, Latin Kings, etc in service and in total numbers dwarf Outlaw Bikers.
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/gangunit/gangs/motorcycle.html
Gutes lesen.
Richard :munchin
The Reaper
02-05-2011, 18:15
ATF don't always have their facts straight though. The Gunfighters MC, which the report listed a young Sgt. a member of, is a LEO MC. At one time, ATF even listed the Blue Knights, which is the world's largest LEO MC, as OMG. OTOH, I recognized Dan Silcose's name. Worked with him at SFAS. He used to be 7th Grp I think. There used to be several of the guys at SFAS that were Veterans MC. I didn't see them listed though.
AFAIK, the Veterans are not an outlaw club. IIRC though, several members and former members have made that step up. I don't think the Club or the other members of the Vets can be held accountable for that.
The Wingmen on the other hand, appear to be trying to claim turf and become actively involved in certain illicit activity like an outlaw club.
One of the SF members mentioned in the report made E-9 after assaulting a retired SF soldier at a charitable event, another is an intel specialist in 7th Group. Not sure how that tracks with good order and discipline, but it would appear that the leadership has not made an issue of it.
I think the disposition depends on who is in leadership positions at the time. At one time, the USASFC CG called in two soldiers who were consorting with the HAs and told them to make a decision to be soldiers or outlaws in the next X hours. One chose to retire and become a patched member, the other dropped out of his open association with the Club.
I agree that outlaw clubs recruit from service members for a variety of reasons, especially SOF. I think the outlaw lifestyle appeals to certain types within SF as well.
IMHO, once your primary loyalty transfers from your unit, fellow soldiers, and CoC to an outlaw club and your brothers there, you have crossed/burned a bridge and should probably leave the US military to pursue your life as an outlaw.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/gangunit/gangs/motorcycle.html
Gutes lesen.
Richard :munchin
It was a very good read and thank you for the link!
The Reaper
02-05-2011, 22:14
Surprised to hear a lot of outlaw motorcycle guys come from SOF.
Where did I say that?
TR
The Reaper
02-05-2011, 22:31
I agree that outlaw clubs recruit from service members for a variety of reasons, especially SOF. I think the outlaw lifestyle appeals to certain types within SF as well.
When you said this, I took it to mean that a sizeable number of guys in OMGs come from SOF. Not the majority, but a large enough number that the OMGs regularly look to SOF for recruits.
You would be mistaken.
Don't try to put words into my mouth.
TR
mojaveman
02-05-2011, 22:39
A college from Ft. Bragg sent me a copy of this. Was very surprised to see so many active duty senior NCOs involved with gangs. At the very end there are some recommendations for NC military to report active duty members and contractors working on base. Wow.
http://publicintelligence.info/ATF-OMGmilitary2010.pdf
Interesting read,
Always heard of the more infamous groups but didn't know about some of the smaller ones. Just when you thought nobody was watching you...
Of all of the different gang names I like "Boozefighters" the best. :D :p
Interesting read,
Always heard of the more infamous groups but didn't know about some of the smaller ones. Just when you thought nobody was watching you...
Of all of the different gang names I like "Boozefighters" the best. :D :p
Boozefighters is one of my favorites. Our local OMG is called the Free Souls. They have a few chapters throughout the state and a couple overseas. LEO puts their numbers at about 100 members in state. If that is correct then they have at least a 10% membership that is made up of prior and current military. Their support club they started a while back has alot higher percentage of vets in it than that as well.
I ride a Vespa, Seafoam Green, wicker basket up front with a bottle of French wine and baguette.
http://nnvcoc.com/
I ride a Vespa, Seafoam Green, wicker basket up front with a bottle of French wine and baguette.
http://nnvcoc.com/
You lookin' to get a Polecat patch, pledge?
CloseDanger
02-06-2011, 14:54
During Motorbike weekend, send military liaisons in and see who is picked up there that weekend. It's a pretty burly task, beer bottles rain from the buildings.
I ride a Vespa, Seafoam Green, wicker basket up front with a bottle of French wine and baguette.
http://nnvcoc.com/
Sounds like you're prospecting for the Red Hat Society Ladies MC...:p
So, do you think the Nevada Supreme Court was on alert that day?
IMHO, once your primary loyalty transfers from your unit, fellow soldiers, and CoC to an outlaw club and your brothers there, you have crossed/burned a bridge and should probably leave the US military to pursue your life as an outlaw.
Very well put Sir.
D.
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110924/NEWS18/110924008/Street-Vibrations-cancelled-Sparks-following-Nugget-shooting-another-shooting?odyssey=mod_sectionstories
5:30 p.m. update: The Eldorado Hotel-Casino and the Silver Legacy will staff its doors and only allow registered guests in tonight, police were told.
Also, back packs will be searched. Representatives for the Eldorado and Silver Legacy could not immediately be reached for comment.
4:42 p.m. update: Street Vibrations events in Sparks tonight are cancelled in the wake of Friday's night's shooting in John Ascuaga's Nugget and a retaliatory shooting this morning nearby, Sparks Mayor Geno Martini said.
"We're cancelling it in Sparks," Martini said. "After the retaliation it's just too tense of a situation. It's hard to say what's going to happen. It's just not worth the chance."
Street vendors and live entertainment had been scheduled in Victorian Square tonight.
After the late-night shooting that killed one and wounded two, another shooting occurred about 10:30 a.m. at Victorian and Stanford that left one wounded. Martini could cite no details but called the shooting "definitely a retaliation."
4:30 p.m. update: The following is an excerpt from a Sparks news release:
In light of a shooting involving rival members of motorcycle clubs at a Spark Casino Friday night, and a subsequent drive-by shooting on Victorian Avenue in Sparks this morning, a state-of-emergency has been declared by the City. It is expected the Governor will also declare a state-of-emergency on behalf of the City of Sparks. Pursuant to the police powers vested in the City of Sparks, the Street Vibrations motorcycle event in Sparks will be cancelled for the remainder of the weekend.
“The safety and security of the public is our number one priority,” said Sparks Mayor Geno Martini.
The Sparks Police will hold a press conference at 6:00 p.m. at the Sparks Police Department (1701 E. Prater Way).
3 p.m. update: Renown Regional Medical Center was put on lockdown late this morning after several members of the Vagos showed up at the hospital.
1:45 p.m. update: One witness to Friday's shooting at John Ascauga's Nugget thought he saw a Hells Angel pull out a gun and fire first.
mojaveman
09-24-2011, 22:05
Too bad a few baboons and neanderthals had to spoil the activity for everyone else. Most of the people who attend those events are law abiding folks who just like to ride motorcycles.
Too bad a few baboons and neanderthals had to spoil the event for everyone else. Most of the people who attend those events are law abiding folks who just like to ride motorcycles.
The problem between the Angels and Vagos actually goes back to an incident that happened in Laughlin, NV some years ago in which there was a skirmish that caused injuries and fatalities.
Clubs have rules. One of those rules are, Club business is not your business, and Club business should not be public business.
Edited: Shooting victim was, Pres. San Jose - HAMC
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18971523?source=rss
The president of the San Jose chapter of the Hells Angels motorcycle club -- and a San Jose city employee -- was killed Friday night during a shootout inside a Nevada casino with a rival outlaw motorcycle club, officials said.
Jeffrey "Jethro" Pettigrew, 51, worked for 20 years as a heavy equipment operator for the city's Department of Transportation. But San Jose police know him as the charismatic local leader of the notorious biker club that law enforcement has long identified as one of the most powerful and influential criminal motorcycle gangs.
Local police and other gang experts predicted that Friday's homicide, which sources said has been attributed to members of the Vagos Motorcycle Club, could presage further bloodshed.
"In the outlaw motorcycle gang culture, Jeff Pettigrew was a local icon in San Jose, a very well-respected member within the ranks of the Hells Angels," said San Jose police Sgt. Larry Day, who has investigated biker clubs.
"This incident could definitely result in retaliation against the Vagos, and a full-blown war that may result in deadly violence in San Jose and throughout California."
The shootout on the casino floor of John Ascuaga's Nugget Casino Resort in Sparks recalls the infamous motorcycle club gunfight at Harrah's Casino & Hotel in Laughlin, Nev., in 2002. In that showdown, members of the Hells Angels and the Mongols motorcycle clubs fought each other, leaving one Mongol and two Hells Angels dead on the casino floor.
Friday night's bloodshed began at 11:26 p.m., during the annual five-day "Street Vibrations" biker festival in which thousands of bikers from across the country ride into Reno and nearby cities to celebrate.
Sparks police said they responded to a fight involving a large group armed with guns inside the casino. Police said that as their units were on their way to the fight, shots were fired.
Inside the casino, officers found three male gunshot victims. Sparks police identified Pettigrew as the dead man. Vagos Motorcycle Club members Leonard Ramirez, 45, and Diego Garcia, 28, were in stable condition at a hospital after suffering gunshot wounds. Both were identified only as California residents.
In connection with the shooting, Hells Angels member Cesar Villagrana, 36, was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon and possession of a stolen firearm. Police said he was videotaped shooting into the crowd, but could not verify if any of his shots hit the victims. No other suspects have been arrested.
As a result of that shooting and a separate shooting Saturday morning, the Sparks' part of the Street Vibrations event was canceled Saturday afternoon. Police would not say if the shootings were related.
Law enforcement experts said members of the Hells Angels and Vagos clubs are blood enemies.
"There's going to be hostilities," predicted Jorge Gil-Blanco, a former San Jose police officer who is familiar with outlaw motorcycle clubs.
"When you have a situation where one member gets killed by another gang, then something is going to happen," he said. "It might be right away or it might be down the road."
The editor of Ride Rag, an influential biker publication, said that law enforcement and media were misinterpreting a rare act of violence.
"Unfortunate events are prevalent in every culture and subculture," said the editor, who goes by the name Yve.
"As a motorcycle club advocate," she added, "it is our position that motorcycle clubs are, in essence, families, and as such our respective 'communities' should be able to exercise the right to reserve comment and reflect on the situation without outside opinion or condemnation."
Hum, are these gangs running thousands of guns to Mexican drug cartels? :rolleyes:
Are these gangs laundering billions of dollars of drug money? :rolleyes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
These gangs have no REAL power. They don't have billions of dollars, their colors aren't hidden, it's out in the open, they have no access to classified information, they aren't duel citizens, they have no history of supporting Communism, nor has gang member has been caught spying for a foreign government. These gangs are a local and state law enforcement problem, not federal. Sounds like SPLC propaganda.
Oldrotorhead
09-26-2011, 09:29
OMC's make and sell drugs. The Mexican cartels don't see to be targeting them as competition so maybe there is a link.
Just a question. How does someone in the military keep a security clearance when the associate with criminals?
:confused:
69harley
09-26-2011, 09:36
OMC's make and sell drugs. The Mexican cartels don't see to be targeting them as competition so maybe there is a link.
Just a question. How does someone in the military keep a security clearance when the associate with criminals?
:confused:
Or get selected for promotion to E-9?
Here's my take. While some local clubs pop on or off the OMG watch list in the greater Fayetteville area it doesn't mean they are actually "outlaw motorcycle gangs". Take the Veterans MC as cited in a previous example. It's the oldest Veterans Motorcyde Club in the nation. They do a lot to raise money and bring awareness to Veterans issues. By simply having adding a motorcycle to the equasion a lot of clubs in town - primarily veterans clubs have been the target of LE and MIL scruitiny. Yet nobody has been able to prove or even make an educated assessment that the clubs are involved in illegal activity. Riding in a club and having a brotherhood outside of the service doesn't mean your loyalty to your unit has changed. It's not abnormal to expect that AD and retired Veterans will primarily want to hang out with other Veterans... These military clubs give folks an outlet to do it without treading anywhere near actual criminal organizations.. I see this issue coming up over and over again and it just seems silly.
As for fights and what not. They occur inside and outside of motorcycle clubs, the VFW, OMG's and little league games. The common denominator is usually alcohol not membership in a specific group.
If the MIL or USASOC ban participation in motorcycle clubs I think it's going to have a pretty negative affect. It will remove a very positive outlet some folks have. Not to mention I don't think the folks with the power to do so realize this will affect literally hundreds of people in SF and other SOF units. If someone breaks the law or violates UCMJ then deal with him as such. I'm not aware of a single criminal organization working under the guise of being a veterans based motorcycle club. So unless it's proven than a motorcycle club is a criminal organization why treat the members like criminals?
That OMG list makes a lot of accusations and certain folks on there are cited as CCW holders who are known to carry firearms. I know that subjects you to local background checks and a search in the gang task force database at least in Cumberland county.. So if these guys are actually criminals how did they get CCW's or why have their CCW's not been pulled? Probably because the meat and potatoes of that report is based on speculation not fact.
My .02
Just a question. How does someone in the military keep a security clearance when the associate with criminals?
:confused:
The same way someone becomes POTUS with said past and present associations obtains a security clearance. :D
Here's my take. While some local clubs pop on or off the OMG watch list in the greater Fayetteville area it doesn't mean they are actually "outlaw motorcycle gangs". Take the Veterans MC as cited in a previous example. It's the oldest Veterans Motorcyde Club in the nation. They do a lot to raise money and bring awareness to Veterans issues. By simply having adding a motorcycle to the equasion a lot of clubs in town - primarily veterans clubs have been the target of LE and MIL scruitiny. Yet nobody has been able to prove or even make an educated assessment that the clubs are involved in illegal activity. Riding in a club and having a brotherhood outside of the service doesn't mean your loyalty to your unit has changed. It's not abnormal to expect that AD and retired Veterans will primarily want to hang out with other Veterans... These military clubs give folks an outlet to do it without treading anywhere near actual criminal organizations.. I see this issue coming up over and over again and it just seems silly.
As for fights and what not. They occur inside and outside of motorcycle clubs, the VFW, OMG's and little league games. The common denominator is usually alcohol not membership in a specific group.
If the MIL or USASOC ban participation in motorcycle clubs I think it's going to have a pretty negative affect. It will remove a very positive outlet some folks have. Not to mention I don't think the folks with the power to do so realize this will affect literally hundreds of people in SF and other SOF units. If someone breaks the law or violates UCMJ then deal with him as such. I'm not aware of a single criminal organization working under the guise of being a veterans based motorcycle club. So unless it's proven than a motorcycle club is a criminal organization why treat the members like criminals?
That OMG list makes a lot of accusations and certain folks on there are cited as CCW holders who are known to carry firearms. I know that subjects you to local background checks and a search in the gang task force database at least in Cumberland county.. So if these guys are actually criminals how did they get CCW's or why have their CCW's not been pulled? Probably because the meat and potatoes of that report is based on speculation not fact.
My .02
Another questions is why are they publishing names of CCW holders. The purpose of the law is to conceal the fact that you are carrying and to openly show or tell someone you are carrying is wrong in the spirit of the law so to speak.
69harley
09-27-2011, 13:48
Aside from Tope beating up the SF Veteran in the park, the national president of the Wingmen was kicked out of the Army (7th SFG) for illegal cocaine use. There are countless other convicted felons belonging to the Wingmen MC. While not illegal, it sure does not look right for active duty soldiers to be involved so closely with convicted felons and illegal drug abusers.
As for the comment about the Wingmen not running illegal guns or drugs; who knows what they are doing or not doing. The facts are many members of the Wingmen have extensive contacts in SA and many other countries around the world, and they openly associate with many of the big 1% clubs. In Fayetteville it is the Angels, in Columbus they associate with the Outlaws, in Jacksonville they associate with the Pagans. When the ATF asks in a public document specifically for the names of soldiers and contractors that are working on base that are members of the WINMEN and not any other club, that speaks volumes.
Another questions is why are they publishing names of CCW holders. The purpose of the law is to conceal the fact that you are carrying and to openly show or tell someone you are carrying is wrong in the spirit of the law so to speak.
The ATF report is supposed to be for law enforcement only. When an officer runs your tag through NCIC, it displays whether you have a CCW or not, so the officer already knows that.
Aside from Tope beating up the SF Veteran in the park, the national president of the Wingmen was kicked out of the Army (7th SFG) for illegal cocaine use. There are countless other convicted felons belonging to the Wingmen MC. While not illegal, it sure does not look right for active duty soldiers to be involved so closely with convicted felons and illegal drug abusers.
As for the comment about the Wingmen not running illegal guns or drugs; who knows what they are doing or not doing. The facts are many members of the Wingmen have extensive contacts in SA and many other countries around the world, and they openly associate with many of the big 1% clubs. In Fayetteville it is the Angels, in Columbus they associate with the Outlaws, in Jacksonville they associate with the Pagans. When the ATF asks in a public document specifically for the names of soldiers and contractors that are working on base that are members of the WINMEN and not any other club, that speaks volumes.
Would the wingmen have contacts any normal 7th group guy wouldn't have? I see what you're saying, but I think most people's comments about "openly associating" with big 1 percent clubs comes from bikers having only a few "biker bars" they go to and seeing each other around all the time.
There's a big difference between somebody thinking it doesn't look right and being illegal. This kinda stuff has the potential to get clubs banned from the military. Meanwhile we have insane numbers of street gangs joining the military for combat training.. That would probably be a better focus. I'd just like to see the focus be put on known criminal organizations. Not just motorcycle clubs in general. I'm sorry, but a fight with an SF dude which I don't believe led to any charges right? And a guy getting kicked out for drug use don't make them a criminal organization. Just means two or the guys committed crimes.
I'm not defending them. I just hope the Army uses a sensible approach to dealing with this versus a knee jerk reaction. I'd like to see some logic applied before the MIL takes away yet another freedom from those who serve.
The ATF report is supposed to be for law enforcement only. When an officer runs your tag through NCIC, it displays whether you have a CCW or not, so the officer already knows that.
True when the officer is acting in an official capacity. While off duty though it's none of his business. :)
Also while this publication is meant for law enforcement it is also in the public domain. How would they like it if someone published a listing of all officers who were licensed to carry CCW or for that matter that have purchased high power rifles in the past. That would be nice info for crooks so they know which houses have guns. That way they can wait until no one is home and break in and they are likely to find more than CCW weapons.
Just my 2 cents worth.
PS I like the way this guy thinks: 20099
The facts are many members of the Wingmen have extensive contacts in SA and many other countries around the world, and they openly associate with many of the big 1% clubs. In Fayetteville it is the Angels, in Columbus they associate with the Outlaws, in Jacksonville they associate with the Pagans. When the ATF asks in a public document specifically for the names of soldiers and contractors that are working on base that are members of the WINMEN and not any other club, that speaks volumes.
While each individual makes a commitment to each of their associated Clubs, they are also all VETs. And while some clubs are blood enemies, these VETs are no longer brothers, who would stand beside each other in a greater need.
Bosnia, Serbs/Albanians, same shit, different day. "We hate each other, because someone said we're supposed to. His grandfather raped my grandmother."
There is no place for criminal activity in the lives of Special Forces men, past present or future. Unless of course it pays REALLY well, which is the bottom line, Money.
At some point, the amount in their minds justifies the line being crossed to one ethics.
Oldrotorhead
09-27-2011, 20:04
The ATF report is supposed to be for law enforcement only. When an officer runs your tag through NCIC, it displays whether you have a CCW or not, so the officer already knows that.
I disagree, the AFT has no business including names on a list with no more evidence reported than XXXXX is a CCL and rides with the Bimbo MC,he also served in the military. This report is flawed from the start and should embarrass the AFT for publishing it in the first place. The only thing I know about the ATF is that they get far more negative press than any other federal agency that I can think of. Based on the ATFs current issues I question the validity of anything they report.
I am not familiar with all of these MCs but when you hang with the Angels, Pagans, or the Breed people should start questioning your common sense.
Have a drink with them in a bar maybe is OK but hanging at one of their club houses might bring people to question your judgment.:munchin:
Gangs have always tried to use the military. If they are found out to have a criminal background or are known to be a gang banger they are weeded out. If they lie and are daunt they are weeded out. The Wingnuts are a criminal org and that is a fact just like the Angles, Pagans etc.... Our SF brothers and any other soldier should not be affiliated with them. As far as the only biker bars well guess they need to find another p,ace to drink and not associate with the scum. A real veterans bike club is real not some front trying to say look at me we are vets not crooks. Old trick and it sometimes works.
Tope do not get me going on that guy.....
I ride but do not associate with that kind and never will. You have to have standards and moral's and proper values. If you have them you will not be around the Wingnuts or any others like them.
My 2 cents
Would the wingmen have contacts any normal 7th group guy wouldn't have? I see what you're saying, but I think most people's comments about "openly associating" with big 1 percent clubs comes from bikers having only a few "biker bars" they go to and seeing each other around all the time.
There's a big difference between somebody thinking it doesn't look right and being illegal. This kinda stuff has the potential to get clubs banned from the military. Meanwhile we have insane numbers of street gangs joining the military for combat training.. That would probably be a better focus. I'd just like to see the focus be put on known criminal organizations. Not just motorcycle clubs in general. I'm sorry, but a fight with an SF dude which I don't believe led to any charges right? And a guy getting kicked out for drug use don't make them a criminal organization. Just means two or the guys committed crimes.
I'm not defending them. I just hope the Army uses a sensible approach to dealing with this versus a knee jerk reaction. I'd like to see some logic applied before the MIL takes away yet another freedom from those who serve.
Hey I just thouht of a positive side of this list. The BATFE is probably getting ready to give us a ton of guns to "track their path thru the organization". That would be awesome. They could track the guns all the way to my gun safe.
Maybe it IS a good time to be a biker... Ha.
SF-BHT,
I wasn't defending them specifically I just think whatever the MIL response is going to be an across the board "fix" and it won't differentiate between wingmen, sfb, sfmc, veterans, infidels, etc...
Hey I just thouht of a positive side of this list. The BATFE is probably getting ready to give us a ton of guns to "track their path thru the organization". That would be awesome. They could track the guns all the way to my gun safe.
Maybe it IS a good time to be a biker... Ha.
SF-BHT,
I wasn't defending them specifically I just think whatever the MIL response is going to be an across the board "fix" and it won't differentiate between wingmen, sfb, sfmc, veterans, infidels, etc...
Na, just wait for the first women's SFQC class to enter Sage, and lift weapons then.
Na, just wait for the first women's SFQC class to enter Sage, and lift weapons then.
Hahaha. Save me a BFA. With the budget cuts were probably gonna all gonna need em.
MTN Medic
09-28-2011, 16:32
My $.02, if you wear a 1% patch or hang out with those that do, you need to hang up your beret. The only way to get/retain a clearance is to lie about your proximity to known felons. Anyone think that is right?
Either that, or all those 1% patches are a crock and these guys need their own poser thread. Can't have your cake and eat it too. I am thinking that those that wear a 1% patch live up (or down) to the ideals inherent in the patch.
El Gallo
03-19-2014, 22:56
Outside of Ft Bragg, NC the two prominent clubs are the Veterans MC (Hope Mills is their Mother Chapter, originally started in Spring Lake, NC on the north side of Ft Bragg) and the Wingmen MC. The Veterans MC, as you can tell by the name, is all veterans. The Wingmen MC are mixed, though the majority of their members around military bases tend to be military. As of my retiring (2009) there was no official decree from the military outlawing membership in a club. The Wingmen MC and the Veterans MC (reportedly the first and second largest independent motorcycle clubs in the world respectively) are NOT "outlaw" or 1% clubs. You have to understand the world they live in though, which obviously the "50lb brains" putting together the reports on OMG's don't. If you're in a club and you don't want a lot of drama, when you see a 1% club, you pay your respects. They might blow you off, or they might decide to come party at your clubhouse... which you absolutely agree to. That is NOT association in my book. It's club politics.
1stindoor
03-20-2014, 06:25
Thank goodness...I was wondering when someone would join the site, resurrect a nearly three year old thread and explain to us how motorcycle clubs work.
WTF..........
Glad it was finally explained:p
Right, inviting the HA to your clubhouse is not association.....it's, ah, just being polite society wtf.
Thank goodness...I was wondering when someone would join the site, resurrect a nearly three year old thread and explain to us how motorcycle clubs work.
bwwaaa haaa haaa, Crickey, you're killin' me...:D:D
Thank goodness...I was wondering when someone would join the site, resurrect a nearly three year old thread and explain to us how motorcycle clubs work.
I'm glad someone did.
It's been keeping me up at nights, wondering if I'm a I%er or a III%er ????
:eek:
Not that it takes much to confuse me but isn't the 1% in reference to the really wealthy people in this country who steal everything from the poor? And who is this
III % ? :D
The Reaper
03-21-2014, 16:16
Not that it takes much to confuse me but isn't the 1% in reference to the really wealthy people in this country who steal everything from the poor? And who is this
III % ? :D
A 1%er is an OMC member.
A 3%er is a freedom fighter.
Is your pink button broken today?
TR
A 1%er is an OMC member.
A 3%er is a freedom fighter.
Is yourr pink button broken today?
TR
Fixed.
contractor1108
05-23-2014, 12:44
A college from Ft. Bragg sent me a copy of this. Was very surprised to see so many active duty senior NCOs involved with gangs. At the very end there are some recommendations for NC military to report active duty members and contractors working on base. Wow.
http://publicintelligence.info/ATF-OMGmilitary2010.pdf
www.pipehittersunionmc.com , they are mostly Fmr, Retired, Active Spec-Ops,Security Contractors, PMC members, Law Enforcement, Active, retired, Fmr military. Real good guys, but they are NOT to be taken lightly.
blue02hd
05-23-2014, 19:30
www.pipehittersunionmc.com , they are mostly Fmr, Retired, Active Spec-Ops,Security Contractors, PMC members, Law Enforcement, Active, retired, Fmr military. Real good guys, but they are NOT to be taken lightly.
Why? Why are they "NOT to be taken lightly?" Nm, don't answer, I don't think I really care.
This is re-hash of the same "report" done year after year.
Change a name, change a picture, change the date.
Scare tactics and justification for more money to write equally dumb reports.
Error-filled and broad generalizations and profiling included.
You'll notice the Blue Knights are not included although they have chapters that fly 3-piece patches (1%er style) and their own "bad actors" both active LE and otherwise.
Probably because BK also has ATF personnel as members:D
WarriorDiplomat
05-24-2014, 18:04
Aside from Tope beating up the SF Veteran in the park, the national president of the Wingmen was kicked out of the Army (7th SFG) for illegal cocaine use. There are countless other convicted felons belonging to the Wingmen MC. While not illegal, it sure does not look right for active duty soldiers to be involved so closely with convicted felons and illegal drug abusers.
As for the comment about the Wingmen not running illegal guns or drugs; who knows what they are doing or not doing. The facts are many members of the Wingmen have extensive contacts in SA and many other countries around the world, and they openly associate with many of the big 1% clubs. In Fayetteville it is the Angels, in Columbus they associate with the Outlaws, in Jacksonville they associate with the Pagans. When the ATF asks in a public document specifically for the names of soldiers and contractors that are working on base that are members of the WINMEN and not any other club, that speaks volumes.
Not hearing good things about the SGM from anywhere he has made quite a reputation as a less than honorable character. Funny no one has decided to relieve him from SF or hold him accountable for the damage his antics do to the regiment at least that is what I am hearing. Loyalty to the brotherhood and mission before loyalty to a MC club if he doesn't see it that way then he needs to hang up his guns.
In either '96 or '97, and SF senior NCO (E8) and Warrant were kicked out of Group and I believe the Army for prospecting with the HA.
There were photos providing evidence of them wearing prospect colors.
Puppet clubs, or clubs sanctioned by an OMG to "rep" them formally, exist with all major 1%'er clubs.
One example is "Los Hombres", which is puppet club for the Bandidos - http://hombresmc.net/
Puppet clubs usually have the major 1%er colors in some manner incorporated into their club colors and openly show "Support" media.
Puppet clubs likewise (are alleged to) carry the burden of doing this, that or the other whether legal or illegal for the sponsoring club.
In most cases, as well, non-puppet clubs but clubs none the less that wish to operate openly and freely on a major 1%er club's turf, must seek the permission of the OMG to do so.
It is considered showing Respect and getting permission to fly club colors - non OMG - means no one gets screwed with, or at least very much.
If all of this sounds like classic UW and tribal cultures...that be the case, indeed.
contractor1108
05-26-2014, 20:32
Why? Why are they "NOT to be taken lightly?" Nm, don't answer, I don't think I really care.
OK, so you don't care, then why even answer? FYI, I made that remark, because they are a club which originated out of the Pipe Hitters Union clothing company. Many so called 1 %er clubs, think that makes them a bunch of posers, which they definitely are not. Ever heard the saying, if you cant say something decent, dont say anything?
In 5 years and you post 2 times and you are giving attitude to a QP. You can not contribute anything more in 5 years.
Do you really think we care what some so called 1%er say or think? There is a difference between Outlaw gangs that are criminal organizations and a bunch of guys who like to ride bikes.
How about a little more reading and post something that contributes to the board.
Do not lecture us inside our house!!!!!:munchin
The Reaper
05-26-2014, 21:05
OK, so you don't care, then why even answer? FYI, I made that remark, because they are a club which originated out of the Pipe Hitters Union clothing company. Many so called 1 %er clubs, think that makes them a bunch of posers, which they definitely are not. Ever heard the saying, if you cant say something decent, dont say anything?
You are an unknown guest on an SF forum. We know Blue as a teammate. You, not so much.
Conduct yourself appropriately and respectfully, or go back to not posting.
Frankly, anyone who puts his riding buddies above his SF buddies is seriously deluded.
The only people I would trust with my back without significant time proving themselves is blood kin, and SF. Not SOF, not cops, not contractors, and NOT people I ride with who do not meet the criteria.
You may think differently, and that is fine, as long as you disagree respectfully.
TR
blue02hd
05-26-2014, 22:01
contractor,
If it is the opinion of the 1%'ers that drives you then nothing I could have posted will make you feel any better inside. I am not a 1%er, nor will I ever be so my opinion should be beneath you. If you are searching for validation for your association to The Pipe Hitter Guild then this is not the place for you I fear. The only Pipe Hitters I ever met were support kids working on a FOB in Kandahar, complete with the stickers found on the bike in the link you provided. They also played World of Warcraft, something about magical swords. So you see that is my personal reference. Not impressive, but then again maybe I was just lucky enough "not to have crossed them".
The last true OMC's I met rode double on their bikes with AK's and RPG's. We did not take them lightly. They did not need stickers on their bikes.
As for the cryptic warning you posted about a riding club,, I mean really, wth did you expect for a reply in this forum? Do you know your target audience?
Are you a 1%er? Have I taken you too lightly? Like many here who also ride, I've met many members who prospected for a variety of clubs to include some 1%'ers. Never met one who posted warnings on a public internet forum before, especially on one replete with current and former Law Enforcement contributors.
That makes you unique.
What is a poser in the context of riding motorcycles?
Is a poser someone who pretends to ride but doesn't actually own a motorcycle?
Is a poser someone that wears "colors" representative of a "club" that they aren't a part of?
Is a poser a responsible adult that enjoys riding motorcycles with other responsible adults that like to gather together during their spare time and enjoy each others company without bragging about how many people they may or may not have punched out that week?
69harley
05-27-2014, 09:01
Not hearing good things about the SGM from anywhere he has made quite a reputation as a less than honorable character. Funny no one has decided to relieve him from SF or hold him accountable for the damage his antics do to the regiment at least that is what I am hearing. Loyalty to the brotherhood and mission before loyalty to a MC club if he doesn't see it that way then he needs to hang up his guns.
SGM Tope retired awhile ago and until a month or two ago was working on Camp Morehead for Engility. A close personal friend, that also worked for Engility and had Dave as his supervisor, reports that Dave was told not to return after his mid-tour leave.
SGM Tope retired awhile ago and until a month or two ago was working on Camp Morehead for Engility. A close personal friend, that also worked for Engility and had Dave as his supervisor, reports that Dave was told not to return after his mid-tour leave.
Finally some one saw the light.
Finally some one saw the light.
And bunch of folks have seen through his facade.