02-03-2011, 08:18
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 280
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ATF Report on Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs and the Military
A college from Ft. Bragg sent me a copy of this. Was very surprised to see so many active duty senior NCOs involved with gangs. At the very end there are some recommendations for NC military to report active duty members and contractors working on base. Wow.
http://publicintelligence.info/ATF-OMGmilitary2010.pdf
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69harley is offline
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02-03-2011, 08:41
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#2
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 158
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I'm not surprised at all. My boyfriend retired out of SF last year as a SGM and was approached several times over the years. I've dealt with Outlaws and Black Pistons in Charlotte.
Those guys are nice and would NEVER do anything criminal, doncha know? 
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Blue is offline
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02-03-2011, 09:04
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#3
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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I knew a guy in one out in Hope Mills. My band played a gig there. Good club.
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Last edited by Dusty; 09-27-2011 at 09:17.
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Dusty is offline
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02-05-2011, 05:47
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wilson,NC
Posts: 1,506
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ATF don't always have their facts straight though. The Gunfighters MC, which the report listed a young Sgt. a member of, is a LEO MC. At one time, ATF even listed the Blue Knights, which is the world's largest LEO MC, as OMG. OTOH, I recognized Dan Silcose's name. Worked with him at SFAS. He used to be 7th Grp I think. There used to be several of the guys at SFAS that were Veterans MC. I didn't see them listed though.
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rdret1 is offline
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02-05-2011, 08:10
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hope Mills, NC
Posts: 2,819
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I recognized a few names also. Including the one who got in the scuffle with an SFMC member not to long ago....well, maybe a yr or so..
HHmmmm, not to good to be on a "watch" list.....'specially if ya got a clearance, or maybe it doesn't matter.
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glebo is offline
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02-05-2011, 08:32
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#6
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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My OMG, The Polecats, was on a watch list out here in Arkansas for a while, but they got bored with the surveillance because we ride licker sickles.
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Dusty is offline
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02-05-2011, 09:05
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#7
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,653
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Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
I partially answered my own question:
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There does not appear to be any single military policy regarding membership in OMGs; policies seem to differ among the branches of service, among different commands, and from installation to installation
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I would have thought this type of investigation was out of the BATFE's jurisdiction and more inline with the FBI does.....kind of reminds me of the evil groups in the MIAC report. Not to discount that some of the OMG's may cause problems, but we have MS13, Latin Kings and problems on the border that would to me personally seem more pressing than some Outlaw Bikers.
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Last edited by Paslode; 02-05-2011 at 09:49.
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Paslode is offline
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02-05-2011, 09:34
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paslode
Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
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Lots of MCs - some are known for on-going criminal activity and many are not - think about it.
Richard 
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Richard is offline
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02-05-2011, 10:04
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#9
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Lots of MCs - some are known for on-going criminal activity and many are not - think about it.
Richard |
I did Sir and I am aware of OMG's past activities. But I would wager MS13, Latin Kings, etc in service and in total numbers dwarf Outlaw Bikers.
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Paslode is offline
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02-05-2011, 10:14
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#10
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
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Quote:
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Is it illegal or against military protocol for a service member to belong or to be associated with a MC?
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Off the top of my head I would say no. OTOH, If the constitution or bylaws of said MC subverts the US Constitution or suggests/supports or outlines any criminal activity or outlines anything that is unlawful under UCMJ...... That's a different animal.
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Snaquebite is offline
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02-05-2011, 10:19
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clay House Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 2,675
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If you ever did a serious study on what type of people join outlaw motorcycle clubs it might surprise you. The better known ones actually include many professionals in their ranks. It's not like the old days when they were just a bunch of illiterate grease monkeys. They've actually become very sophisticated. And yes, many motorcycle clubs like to recruit Veterans because of their experience with weapons and tactics.
Last edited by mojaveman; 02-05-2011 at 22:50.
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mojaveman is offline
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02-05-2011, 10:20
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paslode
I did Sir and I am aware of OMG's past activities. But I would wager MS13, Latin Kings, etc in service and in total numbers dwarf Outlaw Bikers.
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http://www.justice.gov/criminal/gang...otorcycle.html
Gutes lesen.
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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02-05-2011, 18:15
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdret1
ATF don't always have their facts straight though. The Gunfighters MC, which the report listed a young Sgt. a member of, is a LEO MC. At one time, ATF even listed the Blue Knights, which is the world's largest LEO MC, as OMG. OTOH, I recognized Dan Silcose's name. Worked with him at SFAS. He used to be 7th Grp I think. There used to be several of the guys at SFAS that were Veterans MC. I didn't see them listed though.
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AFAIK, the Veterans are not an outlaw club. IIRC though, several members and former members have made that step up. I don't think the Club or the other members of the Vets can be held accountable for that.
The Wingmen on the other hand, appear to be trying to claim turf and become actively involved in certain illicit activity like an outlaw club.
One of the SF members mentioned in the report made E-9 after assaulting a retired SF soldier at a charitable event, another is an intel specialist in 7th Group. Not sure how that tracks with good order and discipline, but it would appear that the leadership has not made an issue of it.
I think the disposition depends on who is in leadership positions at the time. At one time, the USASFC CG called in two soldiers who were consorting with the HAs and told them to make a decision to be soldiers or outlaws in the next X hours. One chose to retire and become a patched member, the other dropped out of his open association with the Club.
I agree that outlaw clubs recruit from service members for a variety of reasons, especially SOF. I think the outlaw lifestyle appeals to certain types within SF as well.
IMHO, once your primary loyalty transfers from your unit, fellow soldiers, and CoC to an outlaw club and your brothers there, you have crossed/burned a bridge and should probably leave the US military to pursue your life as an outlaw.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
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The Reaper is offline
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02-05-2011, 21:42
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#14
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
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It was a very good read and thank you for the link!
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Paslode is offline
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02-05-2011, 22:14
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Surprised to hear a lot of outlaw motorcycle guys come from SOF.
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Where did I say that?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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