Don't marry a jerk!

brewmonkey · 02-04-2006, 11:55

I am torn on a program like this, mostly because I really do not have enough info to form an opinion. However is this really something the Army should be giving classes on?

I know that marital problems are a concern for the service as soldiers with them result in down time, visits to CMHS and so on all which in the end cost the unit money and lead to lower readiness ability.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/...68/detail.html

**The Reaper** · 02-04-2006, 12:04

Just saw that myself over at Foxnews.

I have to agree, I see way too many junior soldiers marrying for all of the wrong reasons, sex, family housing, lust, FSA, loneliness, fear, immaturity, etc.

Nothing at all wrong with trying to counsel them a bit before they take a very big step.

I saw middle aged women in my last job with their third military husband in four years, and with kids from each! Very scary.

Makes me wish for the good old days when the commander had to approve the marriage request.

TR

CPTAUSRET · 02-04-2006, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Just saw that myself over at Foxnews.

I have to agree, I see way too many junior soldiers marrying for all of the wrong reasons, sex, family housing, lust, FSA, loneliness, fear, immaturity, etc.

Nothing at all wrong with trying to counsel them a bit before they take a very big step.

I saw middle aged women in my last job with their third military husband in four years, and with kids from each! Very scary.

Makes me wish for the good old days when the commander had to approve the marriage request.

TR

CONCUR!

"Makes me wish for the good old days when the commander had to approve the marriage request."

TR, you are not that old, are you.

brewmonkey · 02-04-2006, 12:28

It is good to see though that this program does not just apply to the soldier, they have seen it through to include the future spouse. However the one thing I did not see in the article is if this is going to be required for soldiers. Perhaps make it mandatory and without completion you cannot receive the w/ dependants benefits, if that would be legal.

Having been married while I was on AD to someone who knew nothing about the military I know we could have benefited from something like this. Our marriage was a disaster, not because we were young (I was an NCO) but because neither of us had ever had to deal with many of the issues a married couple does deal with. Couple that with the life of a soldier in a high OPTEMPO unit and BLAMO! Divorce is in the making!

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 02-04-2006, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

CONCUR!

"Makes me wish for the good old days when the commander had to approve the marriage request."

TR, you are not that old, are you.

No he isn't, but he is wise beyond his years and is a close friend of NDD, who after all is a medic and medics know things

All kidding aside, I agree with TR. It takes a very special lady to marry into the military and it doesn't get any easier for the wife or the kids as time goes on. I think I can honestly say that the only regret I have ever had about my military service is the stress I have put my family through.

From a commander's point of view I have spent too much time defusing family spats and some downright knock down and drag out brawls. I have seen careers go down the tubes and have witnessed a lot of grief, but in many of the cases a lot of it was self-inflicted with accompanying baggage that came into the relationship that had absolutely nothing to do with the military. While I have always tried to do the right thing with these situations I have lost a little patience once in a while. I can recall one incident at Fort Campbell when this troop just kept on going AWOL to run home to momma and the kids. The last time I counselled him I told him to go over to the mess hall (old army had mess halls) and draw 30 days worth of rations so he would stay away long enough so I could drop him from the Army rolls. Unfortunately the IG was in my outer office on another family matter and he overheard me and was not all that impressed with my guidance.

Jack Moroney-recalling the good old days

JGarcia · 02-04-2006, 21:49

This is a good thing. Lots of guys don't have the skills to do whats right when the heart is involved. Maybe this is a step in the right direction. We have classes for drugs, STD's, balancing your checkbook, alcoholism, etc. It was only a matter of time until something like this came along. As small as the Army is now, 56,000 divorces since 9/11 is a huge problem.

mugwump · 02-05-2006, 11:14

I think this is a great idea. Like Gypsy, our family has been sending care packages to active duty troops for going on five years, and we've developed bonds with many of them. I've worried about several of these young men. The wife situation at home, coupled with constant email and phone access, meant that their heads just weren't in the game like they should have been much of the time. It had to affect their combat effectiveness.

brewmonkey · 02-05-2006, 11:39

I wonder if this is again something that only the Joes will have to go through or will they require ALL members to take the course?

People are people regardless of their rank and I know we all saw both sides of the fence have some issues. As well know though right now our missions are taking their toll not only on the battlefields but on the homefront. A lot of marriages that might have otherwise been GTG are ending in divorce.

I was looking for some numbers that might tell us the whole story and from what I saw it looks like if for some time there was a HUGE spike in divorce rates among the officer corps (2000-2004) but it looks like in 2005 there was a huge drop in numbers while in the enlisted side of the house there was a spike but not nearly as severe as that on the O side of the house.

The search also showed that the Army is offering more programs for soldiers and their families, with special programs focusing on the unique situation of National Guard and Reserve families and other programs that tie in for soldiers returning from combat tours.

I am glad to see the Army recognizes these situations and is taking steps to identify and get help for those who want and/or need it.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/divorce/a/05divorce.htm

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 02-05-2006, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewmonkey

I was looking for some numbers that might tell us the whole story and from what I saw it looks like if for some time there was a HUGE spike in divorce rates among the officer corps (2000-2004) but it looks like in 2005 there was a huge drop in numbers while in the enlisted side of the house there was a spike but not nearly as severe as that on the O side of the house.

]

I have my own views about this, but why do you think that this was the case?

Jack Moroney-married to the same lady for 41 years

BMT (RIP) · 02-05-2006, 16:30

When and after WHITE STAR . That group of men had such a high rate of divorce that Center had a study done as to why.

BMT

**The Reaper** · 02-05-2006, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

I have my own views about this, but why do you think that this was the case?

Natural selection, hasty marriages because of the impending deployment, unrealistic expectations, inability to adapt to the separation (or the reunion), and the lust over love phenomenon.

The upturn next year was because the high risk marriages were gone or on their way to being gone and the formerly married O's couldn't afford another wife right then, even if they wanted one.

TR

brewmonkey · 02-05-2006, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

I have my own views about this, but why do you think that this was the case?

Jack Moroney-married to the same lady for 41 years

I would have to say as Reaper has pointed out that pending deployments played a part in this trend. Those kids coming in fresh from the block knowing that they are going to be away from home for some time and want to have their girl with them.

Neither of them realizes that the life and times of a soldier, especially right now, are not the easiest and the pay is far from on par with the civilian side of the house. They get married and have to live on the economy because housing is moving slow, I can only imagine slower with deployments. Those soldiers start to get in a bit over their heads because for the first time they have a bit of money and they want that new bedroom set or the big screen TV. They keep taking on more and more credit payments which leaves them very little room with the paycheck and then BAM! a baby comes along and they do not have the savings or the paycheck to cope.

Obviously this does not apply to everyone of those divorces but I would say it is close to many in the lower enlisted ranks which my guess would be comprise the majority of the divorces in the EM ranks. Soldiers who get in over their heads and then do not know how to get out. The money problems then leads to other issues and eventually divorce.

On the officer side of the house I would say that those newly minted LT's finally marry their college sweathearts or the special someone they met while being the best man at their friends wedding and somewhere along the road the wife perhaps realizes that the long deployments and the combat tours are more then they really are ready to handle. While they may have college degrees they are not much older then those PVT's so the life experiences likewise are not there.

Again, this is just my opinion based on what I saw while on AD and being an NCO.

I know all too well that it takes someone special to be married to a soldier, my ex was not even close to making the grade regardless of the fact that she met me 3 years after I joined the Army. She seemed to think things would change after getting married, she was wrong. I got the "Why do you have to work such long hours?" and "I thought being promoted meant you got to do less?" She just never understood the military way of life nor did she try to understand it. Of course my ex is now on husband #4, I was #1, so maybe some people are just not supposed to ever be married?

Then there is my mother. Married a PVT and then spent the next year with him constantly going to this school and that school starting with OCS and then watching him deploy to Vietnam as a cherry 2LT the day my sister was born and then getting the news that he had been seriously wounded a few days short of DEROS. This month will be there 39th anniversary. Mom was a trooper, while dad was doing IDF tours (dad was a Title 10 AGR officer) and going around the US doing business mom was left at home with 3 kids, and I can tell you raising me was not an easy task.

**The Reaper** · 02-05-2006, 22:20

Somebody also needs to tell these kids about a little known reg called AR 608-99.

AR 608-99 says that if you and your spouse separate, until you get a court ordered settlement or a divorce, you owe him/her your BAH at the with dependents rate.

There is no provision for how/where you are supposed to live, that is not covered, but you are not normally authorized a room in any billeting.

That frequently sets the stage for one or both members, and any children, to come up short regularly and to have to resort to extreme measures to make ends meet.

You cannot be required to set up an allotment to cover this, but your commander is responsible for enforcing this reg, and once you are informed as to your obligations, you are under a lawful order to make the required payments. Fall behind, and you can be UCMJed immediately, further increasing the financial problems.

Think about it before saying "I Do", which can be the two most expensive words in the English language.

TR

zuluzerosix · 02-05-2006, 23:14

I was a young E-3 in the 82nd about to get married. My 1SG sat me down and gave me the poop. He stopped me from making a big mistake. I will never forget "the behr." He wore a "c-company ranger" combat patch, probably the greatest man ever to live.

"Son...why do want to screw up your life????" That was all it took.

moobob · 02-06-2006, 13:37

Coming out of DLI fairly recently, I'd have to say that this is a great idea. The Chaplain was a big advocate of it.