Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > At Ease > General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2006, 10:59   #1
rubberneck
Area Commander
 
rubberneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Buckingham, Pa.
Posts: 1,746
Gotta love the media

From Joel Stein of the LA Times

Quote:
Warriors and wusses
I DON'T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.

I'm sure I'd like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you're wandering into a recruiter's office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.


And I've got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of.

But I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

Blindly lending support to our soldiers, I fear, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the hawks who sent them there — and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. Trust me, a guy who thought 50.7% was a mandate isn't going to pick up on the subtleties of a parade for just service in an unjust war. He's going to be looking for funnel cake.

Besides, those little yellow ribbons aren't really for the troops. They need body armor, shorter stays and a USO show by the cast of "Laguna Beach."

The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day. Though there should be a ribbon for that.

I understand the guilt. We know we're sending recruits to do our dirty work, and we want to seem grateful.

After we've decided that we made a mistake, we don't want to blame the soldiers who were ordered to fight. Or even our representatives, who were deceived by false intelligence. And certainly not ourselves, who failed to object to a war we barely understood.

But blaming the president is a little too easy. The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying. An army of people ignoring their morality, by the way, is also Jack Abramoff's pet name for the House of Representatives.

I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq. I get mad when I'm tricked into clicking on a pop-up ad, so I can only imagine how they feel.

But when you volunteer for the U.S. military, you pretty much know you're not going to be fending off invasions from Mexico and Canada. So you're willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse. Sometimes you get lucky and get to fight ethnic genocide in Kosovo, but other times it's Vietnam.

And sometimes, for reasons I don't understand, you get to just hang out in Germany.

I know this is all easy to say for a guy who grew up with money, did well in school and hasn't so much as served on jury duty for his country. But it's really not that easy to say because anyone remotely affiliated with the military could easily beat me up, and I'm listed in the phone book.

I'm not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn't be celebrating people for doing something we don't think was a good idea. All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.

Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.
rubberneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 11:08   #2
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
Cute. Stupid. Just what I would expect from that paper.

Wonder why their readership is in decline?

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 11:12   #3
rubberneck
Area Commander
 
rubberneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Buckingham, Pa.
Posts: 1,746
I was all fired up when I read the editorial but when I read the guys bio I had to laugh. What self respecting male works for Martha Syewart? I wonder if the don't ask don't tell policy is the sources of his angst about all things military.
rubberneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 15:53   #4
kgoerz
Quiet Professional
 
kgoerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
Name

Well another name added to the list when I go postal
__________________
Sounds like a s#*t sandwhich, but I'll fight anyone, I'm in.
kgoerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 16:52   #5
CoLawman
Area Commander
 
CoLawman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,205
At least this guy is being honest. He has removed the window dressing so many of his ilk hide behind. I totally agree with his assessment that they are all wusses, only my reasons are much different.
CoLawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 17:06   #6
Weazle23
Guerrilla
 
Weazle23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern Puget Sound
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoerz
Well another name added to the list when I go postal
I like that you said "when" and not "if". lol
__________________
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
--John Stewart Mill--
Weazle23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 19:49   #7
NousDefionsDoc
Quiet Professional
 
NousDefionsDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weazle23
I like that you said "when" and not "if". lol
If you knew what I know, you'd have left off the "lol" at the end of that.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
NousDefionsDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 11:26   #8
Stargazer
Guerrilla
 
Stargazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 471
LTC Steve Russell wrote a soldier's response to Stein's article. It can be found online at the American Thinker website. I think LTC Russell said it right. It is clear to readers who the individual of greater character and honor is.
Stargazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:06   #9
Gypsy
Area Commander
 
Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,134
Here's the link.

http://www.americanthinker.com/comme...mments_id=4272

Quote:
And when I am old, I will be able to look in the mirror and know that I acted on my convictions to preserve what others will not. Cannot. Do not. And what I will see is a man with a clear conscience and a moral sense of purpose.

I am thankful I do not have to look into Mr. Stein’s mirror.

LTC Steve Russell
Beautifully said.
__________________
My Heroes wear camouflage.

Last edited by Gypsy; 01-25-2006 at 12:09.
Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 19:01   #10
REMFlt
Auxiliary
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 76
Sir, thanks for the link, I'm printing that out, and emailing it to friends.
__________________
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." Mahatma Gandhi

Cast or Tab
REMFlt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 19:11   #11
Doc
Quiet Professional
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 982
What a tool.
__________________





De Oppresso Liber



Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 19:15   #12
Gypsy
Area Commander
 
Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by REMFlt
Sir, thanks for the link, I'm printing that out, and emailing it to friends.
De nada. BTW, I'm a gurrrl.
__________________
My Heroes wear camouflage.
Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 19:59   #13
Hugh
Asset
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Somewhere just outside the Beltway
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
What a tool.
Read this Interview with Joel Stein about the column, and it becomes apparent that Tools have a more logical thought pattern than him.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 20:36   #14
Doc
Quiet Professional
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Read this Interview with Joel Stein about the column, and it becomes apparent that Tools have a more logical thought pattern than him.
As a rule I tend to be nice and allow more leeway than most deserve.

Why don't these eggsuckers start their own country and rely on their own security?

Mean hard people get left alone. Wussies get screwed with.
__________________





De Oppresso Liber



Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2006, 00:50   #15
Roycroft201
Guerrilla
 
Roycroft201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: USA- the northeast
Posts: 372
Gypsy,

Thanks for that American Thinker link to LTC Russell's response to Joel Stein.

Wish it were required reading for every person that read Stein's piece.


Roycroft201
__________________
Roycroft201
"In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be teachers and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have. " .....Lee Iacocca

I will cede that we frequently have to associate with people we may not respect. - The Reaper
Roycroft201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:52.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies