01-12-2006, 10:58
|
#1
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet
Posts: 1,495
|
bayonets
Curious on what the current think on Bayonets is?
From my experience/lack off.. great for crowd control as a intimidation factor, other than that worthless. A fighting knife was much more prefered.
In bayonet training, a guy with the knife in bayonet Vs knife generally won. I doubt if half of the Marines in my company in the bush had bayonets never saw on fixed. A K Bar was a thing to lust after.
|
HOLLiS is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 12:20
|
#2
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,818
|
In 25 years, all I ever did with bayonets was to count them periodically as part of the Arms Room inventory.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 12:37
|
#3
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
|
Now then
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
In 25 years, all I ever did with bayonets was to count them periodically as part of the Arms Room inventory.
TR
|
I had to put one on my M16 a time or two for a change of command whop-di-do.
|
Pete is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 13:16
|
#4
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: JBLM
Posts: 1,246
|
I watched a PV2 use the bayonet and scabbard to cut concertina wire out from underneath his HMMWV at NTC.
Seems that the OPFOR made good use of it to canalize the young joe into a "minefield". He veered off his path to avoid the tank ditch and took the wire option instead.
All I can say is that his hands looked like hamburger......and the bayonet had little effect on cutting the wire.
Also been privy'd to have one on the rifle for the change of command and inpspecting arms rooms.
|
jbour13 is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 15:03
|
#5
|
Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,886
|
Of all the military knife projects I've been asked to consider, never once has the bayonet come up, yet.
In the old days of front loading muskets the bayonets were very long and over time the more rounds the firearm could fire, the shorter the bayonets got.
|
Bill Harsey is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 16:18
|
#6
|
Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,836
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
Of all the military knife projects I've been asked to consider, never once has the bayonet come up, yet.
|
Knife collectors, take note! Sounds like there is an opportunity to commission the very first (and possibly last) Harsey bayonet!
|
Roguish Lawyer is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 16:48
|
#7
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
Quote:
In bayonet training, a guy with the knife in bayonet Vs knife generally won.
|
I find this interesting and I think it says more about the lack of proper bayonet training than anything else. Of course I could be wrong.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 17:00
|
#8
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
Of all the military knife projects I've been asked to consider, never once has the bayonet come up, yet.
In the old days of front loading muskets the bayonets were very long and over time the more rounds the firearm could fire, the shorter the bayonets got.
|
I vaguely remember discussing the possibility of an A/F Variant with Bayonet hardware with you some time in the last year or so, but I am probably mistaken.
Good times,
blake
|
Air.177 is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 17:02
|
#9
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air.177
I vaguely remember discussing the possibility of an A/F Variant with Bayonet hardware with you some time in the last year or so, but I am probably mistaken.
Good times,
blake
|
I hope so...
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 17:02
|
#10
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
|
Mounted Bayonet vs Knife?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I find this interesting and I think it says more about the lack of proper bayonet training than anything else. Of course I could be wrong.
|
A bayonet mounted on a rifle is a weapons system while a knife is just a knife. Granted the M16/M4 is not as stout as an M1 Garand but a butt stroke to the jaw will still hurt.
But with all things, generally the one with the most experience wins.
|
Pete is offline
|
|
01-12-2006, 20:28
|
#11
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
|
Back when I was but a wee lad and a Mech Inf Company Commander I used to put the boys thru the paces with bayonet drills every week. It was good PT, gave them the ability to use all the tools that they had at their disposal, and integrated with my combatives training program was a good morale builder and reminded them that an Armored Personnel track was just a vehicle and that they still had to close with and kill the little sucker in the other foxhole once they dismounted those shrapnel magnets. Of course, that was when we had a rifle that could withstand a good butt stroke and the slug that came out of them wasn't deflected by branches.
__________________
Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
|
Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
|
|
01-13-2006, 01:59
|
#12
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pacific NW - Puget Sound
Posts: 1,091
|
I had the opportunity to use the old (WW 1) issue shot gun with the 1917 bayonet mounted on it during riot control duty duty in Japan in 1947. It was an awsome weapon. People did back out of the way of a Platoon size wedge moving towards them in lock step with those nice shiny bayonets and large muzzle holes pointed at their necks. I can't think of a better weapon for riot control.
We were having problems with Japanese Communists at the time.
__________________
De Oppresso Liber - RLTW
"To make war upon rebellion is messy and slow, like eating soup with a knife" -TE Lawrence.
|
Trip_Wire (RIP) is offline
|
|
01-13-2006, 07:36
|
#13
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip_Wire
I had the opportunity to use the old (WW 1) issue shot gun with the 1917 bayonet
|
Ahh, yes-not all bayonets are created equally-but then there is FS's fingernails
__________________
Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
|
Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
|
|
01-14-2006, 11:24
|
#14
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet
Posts: 1,495
|
Sir, seeing your troops in Japan on riot control would have been a site to behold. I have always enjoyed reading personal accounts of events.
When I went through riot training, my instructor was very clear on his opinion of bayonets. He felt they were 100% psychological. For some reason the mob will ignore a rife pointed at them, but a bayonet intimidates them. Maybe they think it was unlikely they would be shot, but there was a good possibility of getting poked.
On the passing of the Bradley Bill, that opinion was reinforced for me. One of the rules/insanities to make a rifle safer, was no bayonet lug. I could not think of any drive buy bayoneting let lone a gang fight where a bayonet charge was used. IMHO, the whole purpose of the Bradley bill was anti-gun and to create a psychological myth of the "assault weapon". Some mysterious firearm that if anyone picked it up there would be a overwhelming urge to commit a crime.
|
HOLLiS is offline
|
|
01-14-2006, 11:52
|
#15
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLiS
Sir, seeing your troops in Japan on riot control would have been a site to behold. I have always enjoyed reading personal accounts of events.
When I went through riot training, my instructor was very clear on his opinion of bayonets. He felt they were 100% psychological. For some reason the mob will ignore a rife pointed at them, but a bayonet intimidates them. Maybe they think it was unlikely they would be shot, but there was a good possibility of getting poked.
On the passing of the Bradley Bill, that opinion was reinforced for me. One of the rules/insanities to make a rifle safer, was no bayonet lug. I could not think of any drive buy bayoneting let lone a gang fight where a bayonet charge was used. IMHO, the whole purpose of the Bradley bill was anti-gun and to create a psychological myth of the "assault weapon". Some mysterious firearm that if anyone picked it up there would be a overwhelming urge to commit a crime.
|
I believe that you are referring to the "Brady Bill" or "Assault Weapons Ban", not the "Bradley Bill".
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 13:39.
|
|
|