Sub-4" fixed backup

PiterM · 12-29-2005, 09:54

Just wondering... how popular are small fixed blades as a backup edge among professionals? I'm nowhere a professional... as a matter of fact I'm not even an active military. But still I think that 3.5" or 4" solid backup blade is not so bad idea in the fileld. Any thoughts guys? Something like this Strider SA-L?

**Bill Harsey** · 12-29-2005, 09:56

Piter,
Good question.

**The Reaper** · 12-29-2005, 10:19

IMHO, the knife you describe is too short for serious fighting.

I could see carrying a blade in that length as a skinning or camp knife, but not for combat.

1. IMHO, one needs a tool for cutting brush, splitting kindling, constructing shelter, etc. That is best filled by a machete, small axe, or very large, point heavy knife. This tool can also be used as a weapon.

2. A combat knife could also be carried, something like the Yarborough, a Randall, A-F, etc. This knife would have to be in the 6"-8" range.

3. A skinner, prep, or camp knife in the 3"-4" range could be carried if the situation dictated a lot of that sort of use, one of the best field guys I know uses a blade like that during survival. A folder would suffice if the knife was not going to be subjected to a lot of pounding.

4. A working folder, like the Harsey T2, the Sebenza, the Strider, etc., is a must, I believe. It is convenient without taking up precious real estate or addding excessive weight.

5. Finally, the multi-tool is almost a necessity. I prefer the Leatherman versions, though before their arrival, the Victorinox Swiss Champ was my favorite. Lack of serious pliers and poor steels for the edged blades were always a deficiency. That is why I carried the large folder for cutting and a set of the mini-Vise Grips for pliers.

Given the above list, I would call 1 and 5 necessities, 4 a much desired addition, 2 useful if going into a combat situation where you might use a knife, and 3 handy to have but the least useful of the bunch unless going hunting or in a survival situation. I see little use for the short knife as a fighter, it adds little that the large folders cannot accomplish other than weight, bulk, and duplication of effort.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

PiterM · 12-29-2005, 11:04

Fighter, combat etc. yeah. Fine.

But what about a situation, that you need to draw a knife in very close distance fight. When Yarborough is too big to draw and too unconvinient to draw. When opening a folder can take one second too long. I've discussed that couple of times with AT guys here and they favor small fixed blade carried in kydex, handle down on vest or horizontal on belt (cross draw). Something they can grab and point into opponent's body even when in clinch. It's not a fighter, it's rather kind of "extreme close quarter piercing tool". Yarborough is fine combat knife... if you can reach for it (usually hanging on your hip), unsnap and draw all 7" up. Easy just before combat... but NOT easy IN combat. That's at least what they told me...

**The Reaper** · 12-29-2005, 11:18

Piter:

Not sure what your background and experience are, you asked for an opinion, I thought that I gave you mine.

Since you seem to want another opinion, I will make mine once again and then yield to someone else who may have one that agrees with you.

I see no practical fighting use for such a blade that would warrant the burden of humping it around. That is just my opinion based on 21 years in US SF and four as an infantryman. I also work regularly with a pretty experienced knife fighter and trainer. That blade is too short to reach any vitals, outside of the neck area. I fail to see that the short blade is that much faster than a blade that would actually penetrate to something that would garner you a quicker kill. Handle down knives, like crossdraw handguns, tend to be snatched by opponents faster than you can draw them.

My personal preference would be to fend off my opponent with whatever was at hand and draw a firearm, if I did not have one in hand already, and perforate my opponent with high speed projectiles till he dropped or I went to slide lock. While you may cut me, the odds of you killing or disabling me with a 3" blade during the time it takes me to bring a firearm to bear are sufficiently low that I am willing to bet my life on it.

If forced to do so by lack of a firearm, I think that I would rather give you a free cut with your 3" blade and at the end of it, have a machete, Yarborough, or other long blade in hand (or for that matter, a Louisville Slugger) to continue the fight.

I think that too many people hump around cool ninja gear looking for situations to use it, when practicality would dictate otherwise. I also tend to think that people in certain HSLD units tell people stuff just to see what they will do. Or so I have heard.

Beautiful knife from Mick and the boys, nonetheless.

Good luck, regardless.

TR

CPTAUSRET · 12-29-2005, 11:25

You received good advice from T R.

When in a situation such as you describe, you use whatever you have, thumbs, fingers, elbows, etc, etc, etc...I had discarded all my projectile weapons, and was down to my survival knife, which by todays standards isn't at all cool. But it did the job, and the other SOB did not make it home safe.

I was writing whan TR was posting. I do not know the length of my survival knife, I can measure it if you want.

Terry

PiterM · 12-29-2005, 11:51

No, no, no... don't get me wrong, please! My personal expirience in knife fighting (fighting-to-kill, not sparring) is zero. And I hope it'll stay like that. I'm just asking because I sold quite couple of this kind of knives (3.5 - 4.5 inch blade) to LEO's and AT's here so I'm just curious (or rather I was, now I know).

Personally, when I carry a knife as a self defense tool (yes, sometimes I do. Too bad firearms are not allowed on the streets of Poland and most of EU countries BTW) than it's usually 5 to 7 inch blade, on my belt, strong side, handle down, under short jacket. Ready instantly.

PiterM · 12-29-2005, 12:46

Also I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my post. That was not my intention. My English is not always perfect, especially the "between the lines" meaning.

**Peregrino** · 12-29-2005, 12:50

PiterM - What TR said. Twice. The Strider is a nice knife, I wouldn't mind having one with a canvas micarta handle for a camp/utility knife. 3" - 4" fixed blades do make great utility tools. On the other hand, they don't do anything that can't be done just as well by a quality folder that can be carried far more efficiently. Given the current combat load and the limited real estate available to carry it on there's no reason at all to have a small fixed blade knife on your person. The only individual I know who advocates knives for CQB has (to the best of my knowledge) never been a combat soldier. He does a great ninja master imitation and I wouldn't want to play "hand to gland" with him, but he's clueless when it comes to what soldiers do for a living. We're not cops that have to worry about weapon retention techniques and less lethal force options. Soldiering is about SA and maintaining personal space while breaking things and killing people. Survival and mission accomplishment requires projecting force, offensive vs. defensive. Knives don't project force very well. In fact knife fighting is WAY down on the use of force continuum. Besides - didn't somebody once say "never take a knife to a gunfight"? FWIW - Peregrino

PiterM · 12-29-2005, 13:05

Peregrino, yes, I know now. TR also knows I know. No further questions. I'm just guest here.

BTW, this is my picture, but (unfortunately) not my knife.

**Bill Harsey** · 12-30-2005, 09:59

Piter,
Your still a most welcome guest and member here. That was a good question because I didn't know what the answer would be.

I haven't made any fixed blades with blades of that length for years and now I know TR doesn't need one.

**The Reaper** · 12-30-2005, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Piter,
Your still a most welcome guest and member here. That was a good question because I didn't know what the answer would be.

I haven't made any fixed blades with blades of that length for years and now I know TR doesn't need one.

Bill:

You and Chris met an SF legend at CMK that many of us here know with a 4" fixed blade on his belt.

It wasn't there for fighting though and it was shaped somewhat differently. For survival tasks and fine game prep, the design that he had is hard to beat.

TR

**Bill Harsey** · 12-30-2005, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Bill:

You and Chris met an SF legend at CMK that many of us here know with a 4" fixed blade on his belt.

It wasn't there for fighting though and it was shaped somewhat differently. For survival tasks and fine game prep, the design that he had is hard to beat.

TR

TR, I remember that meeting clearly as well as the knife.