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E & E Kit
Old 11-26-2005, 15:37   #1
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E & E Kit

Before I begin, I'd like to say that my wife gave birth to a healthy, 5 lb., 13 oz., baby boy last night! Our first...so I'm overjoyed.

Now onto business...

I've been thinking of re-organizing my E & E bag. Thought I'd pull from the pool here and see what others have/want in their kit. Searched the forum and didn't find an E&E specific thread. Please advise if one's out there already/remove this thread.

To keep this simple in concept yet challenge our minds, let's say you have the following guidelines to follow:

1.) We'll say the bag itself is roughly: 10" H x 11.5" W x 5.25" D.

2.) You can ONLY choose 12 (seems like a nice even figure) pieces of gear, any gear you'd like/think is a MUST have during E&E.(Take into acct the gear you would already carry on your persons and concentrate on E&E.)

3.) For all intensive purposes we'll say that this is the kit to beat all kits. So, this is THEE kit you will assemble to deploy with and employ anywhere/anytime, and must be adaptable to multiple situations and environments.

I know what I put in my E&E bags depending on a given AO. Reason I started this thread is because that in the past I've tried to build an all-purpose E&E kit, and then go over scenarios in my mind afterwards, coming to find out that I always wanted to add a couple pcs. here and there.

My intentions for this thread is to see what we come up with. When limiting the pcs. of kit to 12, it forces us to think of necessary and invaluable pcs. of gear that are versatile and can serve more that 1 purpose. Thus allowing you to keep the overall kit fairly light, compact and user friendly when you have to get out of dodge in a hurry.
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Old 11-26-2005, 15:47   #2
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This would seem to be a spin-off of the "Survive!" thread.

We are going to stay off of the classified portion of E&E here.

What do you have on you when you grab the bag? Weapons, ammo, clothing, 1st line/2nd line gear, etc.

Where are you conducting this op (denied, permissive, arctic, desert, woodland, etc.)?

How long do you need to live out of the bag?

Do I have to run with it, lay up and wait, or move long distances?

Why am I in an E&E mode (enemy action, vehicle crash, natural disaster, etc.)?

Are we fighting from the bag, living in the jungle, having to patch up crewmates, building an igloo, what?

Need more info to limit it to a dozen man-portable items.

TR
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Old 11-26-2005, 17:59   #3
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Without the answers to T.R.'s questions I would start with a rabbit's foot and a magic wand. Maybe a tube of invisible cream to boot.

OOPS!! The cream may be classified.

BTW: My "Scoot bag" consisted of what was on my LBE and in my pockets.
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Old 11-26-2005, 18:11   #4
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Okay, I understand that you are asking for a "generic" packing list, while TR has pointed out the necessity of packing for a more limited set of contingencies. As a civilian, this bag might spend most of the time stowed in your car, but should be light enough and discrete enough to carry along if you choose. If I were to prepare such a bag for my own use, I would probably be envisioning its use during

1. Natural disasters
2. Civil disturbances
3. Vehicle accidents
4. "Lost in the woods" type scenarios

I would probably choose a well-organized daypack or messenger's bag in a dark, non-mil color.

The "Survive!" thread has many suggestions for a kit of essentials that could fit in a thigh pocket or small tin. Because I don't usually wear trousers with thigh pockets, though, I won't treat those items as "first line" per se. I will count that kit as one item.

The key things I need to be able to do in the above situations are:

1. Handle common injuries
2. Stay warm
3. Stay hydrated
4. Defend myself
5. Keep moving

So, to add to the bare essentials in the survival kit, i would add:

1. Space blanket - low bulk; useful for preventing shock in injured people; good at retaining body heat; useful as a shelter; possible use as signaling device (shiny side)

2. Go-Lite tarp - waterproof and light; sets up and breaks down quickly; also useful for making a litter if necessary

3. Mioxx water filter - covered elsewhere on this site; very light and compact; can be used to sterilize a wound

4. Nalgene water bottle

5. Collapsible trekking poles - greatly lessen fatigue over long distances; decrease chance of injury if uneven footing

6. Dry socks in a ziploc bag - in same bag enclose copies of DL, CHL, passport, insurance card, key credit card and phone numbers

7. LED torch w/ strobe function

8. Four extra 10 rd. CMC mags for my 1911

9. Lightweight, packable rain shell

10. Leatherman Charge multitool (not usually on my person)

11. Large bag of Pemmican - low nutritional value but lightweight and much better at staving off hunger than energy bars

Now that I've made myself a big, juicy target, I'll quiet down and let the QPs tear this apart.
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Old 11-26-2005, 18:21   #5
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You are still basically talking of a survival kit. E&E can be very different. If you have escaped and are evading you may have nothing. Not many detention centers allow E&E kits.

Survivsal is geographically dependent. As an example, in Alaska we were rewuired to have an artic sleeping bag with us at all times even if the temperature was 70+. Weather changes so fast. I once saw it go from +35 to -40 is the space of a few hours.

Believe it or not but handle of the USAF Survival knife had most os the essentials for surviving and navigating.
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Old 11-26-2005, 20:35   #6
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Concur with everything TR listed, plus a lot is going to depend on your own particular skill sets, experience, and situation and how they may play in whatever scenario you are contemplating. What works for or is carried by one of us may not work for others right down to and including your ability to pass for someone other than who you actually are in appearance, manner, and ethnicity. I'm assuming your E&E kit has nothing to do with your desire to get out of town to avoid changing diapers
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Old 11-26-2005, 21:52   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
This would seem to be a spin-off of the "Survive!" thread.

We are going to stay off of the classified portion of E&E here.

What do you have on you when you grab the bag? Weapons, ammo, clothing, 1st line/2nd line gear, etc.

Where are you conducting this op (denied, permissive, arctic, desert, woodland, etc.)?

How long do you need to live out of the bag?

Do I have to run with it, lay up and wait, or move long distances?

Why am I in an E&E mode (enemy action, vehicle crash, natural disaster, etc.)?

Are we fighting from the bag, living in the jungle, having to patch up crewmates, building an igloo, what?

Need more info to limit it to a dozen man-portable items.

TR
1.) I came across that while I was researching this topic. This thread should focus more on E&E gear, but I hope it draws as much thought and debate as that one.

2.) Agreed. This should be on kit, not tactics. But remember, what you learn at SERE should directly affect the items you choose to put in your bag for E&E.

3.) BDUs, a riggers belt, boots, a cap of sorts (boonie, baseball, nightwatch...whatever as long as its a soft-cap), a plate carrier w/SAPIs, a .45sidearm and 3 full mags, a chest rig with 4 full M4 mags...but NO M4, cans, a flashlight, a knife, and a pair of sun glasses.

4.) Varying terrain. Sporadic villages throughout, open desert in the S with high AM and low PM temps, valleys with vegetation and moderate AM/PM temps in the middle and high-rocky mountainous area from the NW to NE with moderate AM temps and freezing PM temps. There is snow at the higher elevations in the NW to NE. Let's say you're in the NW to NE part of country

5.) An unspecified amount of time. Sorry, you don't have the liberty to choose the exact time/place of extract as no one knows this event occured and what your situation is as of yet. Take this into account when choosing your pieces of kit.

6.) You should be prepared to do all of this with the bag.

7.) Could have been any of these scenarios, bottom line...it's attracted attention of hostiles in the immediate AO and they're now moving to contact. The bag is all you have time to grab before beginning E&E.

8.) Again, you should be prepared to do all of these things to succesfully E&E. You are alone.

I hope that is enough info for you TR, and anyone else whom wishes to take part in this think-tank if you will.
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Old 11-26-2005, 21:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Moroney
Concur with everything TR listed, plus a lot is going to depend on your own particular skill sets, experience, and situation and how they may play in whatever scenario you are contemplating. What works for or is carried by one of us may not work for others right down to and including your ability to pass for someone other than who you actually are in appearance, manner, and ethnicity. I'm assuming your E&E kit has nothing to do with your desire to get out of town to avoid changing diapers
Agreed Jack, TR wanted some general info. I can appreciate that.

Nothing to do with diaper changing, although I may have to put together a kit to cover all baby-borne contingencies! So far it's the best thing that's happened to me by far though.
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Old 11-26-2005, 22:37   #9
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Well, my intitial thought was that this was going to be a survival scenario in a temperate climate. I had the time, so I made a list based on that.

Hey, we can hope for the best, right?

This would have assumed assume a no ruck, pockets empty scenario.

Most of us would have the lighter, the Leatherman, and a flashlight on us at all times, along with 550 cord laces. Checking right now, I have all of the above, keys with a Photon flashlight attached, coins, cash, ID and credit cards, a Sebenza, a drive on rag, a hat, a multifunction watch, pens, a chapstick, reading glasses, toothpicks, a cell phone, and a Nylon riggers belt.

When I am out and about locally, my assault pack has most of the below, plus a ton of other handy items for travel and life on the go.

1. Butane Lighter
2. Leatherman Charge Ti
3. 100 feet 550 cord
4. Space Blankets
5. 35 gallon garbage bags and Ziplocs
6. Silva Ranger Compass or GPS with spare batteries and an area topo map
7. Water- MSR MIOX wrapped with dental floss covered with electrical tape
8. First Aid Kit
9. Surefire L2 Flashlight wrapped in Spiderwire covered with electrical tape
10. Small Axe or hatchet with stainless steel wire wrapped handle covered with 100 MPH tape
11. Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pak or Pocket Pro Survival Kit
12. Radio or cell phone

Some of these will carry over. Let me think on this for a bit, I may post an interim solution tonight and try again tomorrow.

I would say that the basis for your requirements would be medical, mobility, fighting, and commo.

TR
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Old 11-26-2005, 23:01   #10
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Dead-on your last TR.

COMMO is a big issue. You still need to indirectly/directly establish COMM with a C2/SAR element to arrange for an extract, which may be some distance from your current pos, while evading.

Taking into account weather, geography and proximity in relation to friendlies/hostiles you should be prepared to spend up to a week in the field max. from incursion to extraction.
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Old 11-26-2005, 23:42   #11
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Sounds like the Bravo Two Zero scenario. I need to refresh my memory with his book, and “The One Who Got Away”, "Eye of the Storm", and "The Real Bravo Two Zero".

You can freeze to death, especially if you are running and hiding in that environment. You can also die of dehydration in a few days as well.

Here goes initial shot, in no particular order.

1. Compact indig civilian clothing or cover up, snivel gear as needed, wrapped in a couple of large garbage bags or a space blanket
2. Nav kit - map, compass and GPS
3. Commo kit - radio and/or Cell phone with contact numbers, CEOI, etc.
4. Signal kit - mirror, scarf, pen flares, Firefly strobe, etc.
5. Trauma kit with IV kit and meds, to include stimulants, antibiotics, and narcs
6. Compact binos
7. Suppressed .22LR pistol and ammo
8. Hydration bladder (full) with MSR MIOX or water purification tabs
9. Trail mix or other high cal zero prep food for eating on the run
10. Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pak or Pocket Pro Survival Kit
11. Spare .45 ACP ammo and an M67 Fragmentation Grenade
12. Cash, coins, chits, credit cards, or barter items

I will frag/re-eval this tomorrow. Too late for thinking clearly.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 11-27-2005, 18:18   #12
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Hmm, this could be similar to the missing SEALs from earlier this year as well, less the method of entry into the scenario.

Nice to have versus essential. Need versus want. 12 item limit, versus space available in E&E bag. I would change the criteria.

Up to seven days, you will need:

1. Ability to fight and evade. You already have that, less the M-4, which would have been nice to have, should you need to fight, and the civilian clothing (not for close-up disguise, but to make you non-descript from a distance). Consider acquiring quickly after initiating while still moving. Try not to attract attention once you are laid up.

2. Medical care (possible, high risk if not addressed). Design to treat injuries that could be life threatening if not treated within 7 days.

Trauma kit with IV kit and meds, to include stimulants and narcs

3. Shelter. High risk living in built-up areas, BPT survive as far away from civilization as you can get. Given potential sub-freezing temps for several nights, you will need more cover than BDUs. The ability to make fire is important if the opportunity presents itself, but may not be possible for tactical reasons, as they tend to attract attention, day or night.. If so, a very compact stove would be handy for heating food without bringing visitors.

Bivvy Sack in local color

4. Potable water. No easy way to make it 7 days on the run without it. Keep PediaLyte or other ORS in the pack.

Hydration bladder (full)
MSR MIOX

5. Food. Sure, you can go without food for seven days without long-term ill-effects if you are living in your house or are just relaxing outside in a temperate environment. Your body will not function properly and your mind will not make sound decisions if you are on the run in cold-weather for a week without nutrition. Eight hours or so and you will start to fade.

Lightweight, high energy food

6. Navigation. You need to know where you are, where you want to go, and when to stop to be rescued by the right people.

Silva Ranger
Map
GPS with spare batteries

7. Commo. You have to let them know that you are alive and that you are at a location to be extracted in a hostile area. No comms, you are walking out. Could be an option, but not a good one.

Radio or Cell phone with contact numbers, CEOI, etc.

8. Signals. Slightly different from commo, you need to be located specifically and identified for extraction. A good flashlight comes in handy here as well as having multiple other uses. Would like the full kit with mirror, signal panel, pen flares, and smoke, but your limit on the number of items is limiting.

Mirror on Silva Ranger compass will have to do.

9. Survival. Standard survival kit may come in handy should the opportunity present itself. Compact kit, small and lightweight provides a number of potentially useful items.

Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pak or Pocket Pro Survival Kit

10. Tools. You may have to fix a boot, construct a field expedient shelter, hot-wire a car, cut kindling, or fix a radio. Carry the most versatile tools possible.

Leatherman, if you don’t have one on you, or a Hatchet if you do

11. Cash. You will find that people will do a lot of things for you for money. Consider local currency, gold, etc.

Cash, coin, or barterables worth at least $1000.


Again, there are small portable needed items I would like to have with me.

-Space Blankets
-35 gallon garbage bags and Ziplocs
-Small Axe or hatchet with stainless steel wire wrapped handle covered with 100 MPH tape
-Indig civilian clothing or cover up, like a kaffiyeh and a robe
-Snivel gear as needed, perhaps some polypro and a windshirt like the PCU or the Arktis
-Signal scarf, pen flares, Firefly strobe
-Compact binos
-Suppressed .22LR pistol and ammo
-Spare ammo, smoke grenades, and an M67 Fragmentation Grenade or three
-Smallest, lightest sleeping bag you can find
-More food, possibly freeze dried, unless you like getting close to populated areas for stealing, dumpster diving, or shopping, not likely to find many unmolested fishing/trapping opportunities where you are going
-Water purification tabs
-Possibly a small Esbit stove. Would prefer the MSR, but too big and would not make the size/weight utility tradeoff
-Hatchet or small axe with stainless steel wire wrapped handle covered with 100 MPH tape (could also come in handy as extraction tool)
-Your NODs, if you didn’t have any on you. Add a SureFire M1 IR flashlight if you do.
-Slim Jim, large screwdriver, and some wire jumpers, if you might need a vehicle
-Passport
-Dictionary/Pointee-Talkee card, if not familiar with the language

That is enough of a laundry list for now.

TR
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Old 11-27-2005, 20:44   #13
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TR:
Affirmative. I worked with Murph on a couple of occassions before the incident. Hence the interest in posting the thread. We all know what we would do in an E&E situation thanks to SERE. So as to not impede on Opsec I focused on the kit. Don't want to get into trouble in your guys' house.

Will contemplate your list over supper and see if I can add anything differently. Do we agree that as long as you can run/shoot/lay up with the kit, that the number of items shouldn't be restricted? Function over form in this case?

o/m

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Old 11-27-2005, 21:27   #14
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Appreciate your understanding our OPSEC concerns.

It occurs to me that the limiting factor with the kit is size and weight, not an arbitrary number of items, though it does keep it manageable.

I suspect that the priority varies from minute to minute. If you are not hurt, the first aid kit is a waste; if you are not hungry, the food is excess weight; if it is hot, the snivel gear a burden, etc. The stuff is all unneccessary till you need it, then you wish you had the kitchen sink.

Most of the kits I have seen tend toward unassing the vehicle with enough stuff to live seven more minutes (stop the bleeding and keep fighting), not seven days. Probably should distinguish between a bailout bag and an E&E kit.

HTH. Anyone else care to chime in?

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 11-27-2005, 21:46   #15
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It is just too broad of a subject to be specific. In Germany we were passed (individually) through an underground net from Bremen to Switzerland. Our pictures were plastered all over Germany and local police as well as the Grenzshutz were looking for us. All we did was as told. It seemed like I rode a bicycle 2/3 of the way and slept mostly in churches and train stations. Had to be up by 2200 or risk being picked up for vagrancy. Contrary to some previous assumptions, it is easier to blend into a crowd.

Those living in camps in RVN had Bugout Bags ready to grab. On operations survival gear was what I had in my pockets and LBE. It was essentially: "Drop your ruck and run!". In addition to food and water and weapon and ammo we had URC-10 radios, pen flares, strobe lights and mirrors. Many started wearing or fashioning the USAF survival vests. E&E pickup points were committed to memory.
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