Racism in Education

[Jo Sul]

First of all, I am an Engineer (and white). Some of my best friends are black engineers. This strikes me as a very racist comment:
"It's really our cultural responsibility to graduate from and be taught by our own people and to bring more children in and have them follow our path. That's going to be taken away from us," said Stallworth, a 20-year-old sophomore from New York City who hopes to earn her degree before the shutdown.

What do you think the reaction would be if this exact same statement was made by a white student?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/10....ap/index.html

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Yemaya Stallworth came to Clark Atlanta University to get an engineering degree at a school where her teachers and classmates looked like her: black.

But that option may soon disappear -- if not for her, then for the students who come after her.

The historically black university has decided to eliminate the engineering department in May 2008 as part of a cost-cutting move at financially troubled Clark Atlanta. The department is Georgia's only black engineering program.

"It's really our cultural responsibility to graduate from and be taught by our own people and to bring more children in and have them follow our path. That's going to be taken away from us," said Stallworth, a 20-year-old sophomore from New York City who hopes to earn her degree before the shutdown.

Clark Atlanta's trustees voted in 2003 to eliminate the engineering department along with the school of library studies, the international affairs department, the allied health professions program and the systems science doctorate program.

The board cited the university's $7.5 million deficit and a need to concentrate on areas like business, mass media, biology, education and social work -- disciplines President Walter Broadnax said would draw more donors and raise Clark Atlanta's profile.

"We got into financial trouble because we had spread ourselves too thin," Broadnax wrote last March.

Eight engineering professors and a group of engineering students filed a lawsuit last Friday in hopes of saving the program, which has 85 students. A hearing is set for November 10.

"There's a dire need for us to produce black engineers," said Kester Garraway, a senior in mechanical engineering. "The faculty can better relate to our struggles -- some of us need that one-on-one time that we get at CAU."

The lawsuit alleges Broadnax based the phase-out on personal preferences, not on financial needs or department performance.

"We want the issue revisited," department chairman Lebone Moeti said. "It will be clear that the department should be put back together."

Provost Dorcas Bowles said the trustees' decision is final.

Clark Atlanta's program, which began in 1994, offers students majors in mechanical, chemical, electrical and civil engineering.

With the program closed, students will have to rely solely on an existing program where students attend Clark Atlanta for three years before transferring to one of 11 other schools to finish their engineering education, getting two degrees after five years from both institutions. One popular choice is engineering powerhouse Georgia Tech.

But that would mean Clark Atlanta students would have to leave their alma mater. And at a school like Georgia Tech, they would miss the unique experience of attending a historically black college, the engineering program's defenders say.

"The drive they have to get postdoctoral degrees, to create their own businesses, to become consultants, is because of the foundation they got at a historically black college," said Temitayo Akinrefon, a graduate student in engineering at the University of Central Florida in Orlando and regional chairwoman of the National Society of Black Engineers.

The move also means paying for an extra year of tuition. Many of Clark Atlanta's students are on financial aid.

The department's closing would bring the number of engineering programs at historically black colleges nationwide to 13. Most are in the South, including two each in Alabama, Louisiana and Virginia.

"The need that led to the creation of the program at Clark Atlanta has not been fully met or addressed," said Georgia Tech engineering professor Augustine Esogbue, his school's longest-serving black professor. "Apart from educating more black engineers, there's a need for our people to develop the ability and the skills to run technical institutions that will not be met by Tech or any other majority school."

Clark Atlanta's department has produced 102 graduates between 1999 and 2003, Many have gone on to careers in academia or jobs with NASA and companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Ford -- corporations that also donate to the school.

Faculty members say their program is not a drain on Clark Atlanta and actually generates more than $2 million a year in corporate sponsorships.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Jo Sul

What do you think the reaction would be if this exact same statement was made by a white student?

Not good. But not just a "white" student... any other ethnicity could apply here.

I just Googled "Historically *ethnic wildcard* colleges" just now. Nothing else come up other than Black. I don't think it's a bad thing to have "All Black Colleges" per se, but it kind of makes me pause when I think about all we have gone through in the last century to DE-segregate America, and then we have clear segregation happening deliberately. I wonder if Rosa Parks would approve.

The thing I find the most disturbing about this article is this:

"The drive they have to get postdoctoral degrees, to create their own businesses, to become consultants, is because of the foundation they got at a historically black college,"

That's a problematic thought-process in my mind. If your "drive" is spurned by such narrow parameters, you're in for a hard time when you face a life of reality that is going to hand you a lot that doesn't fit in your "comfort zone conducive to ambition".

That's like me saying my drive to be successful in a career that is difficult and predominated by males was because of the foundation I got at an all girl school... er. No. That doesn't apply. Wait! An all BLONDE school... wait.. no... um.... that wont work either.

You either have ambition to succeed or you don't. Your surroundings and cicumstances are often something that must be overcome or adapted to on your road to success.

I would be curious to see how much of the "philosophy" described in that article is actually an accurate reflection of the mindset of today's black students, or conversely, a minority opinion and convenient soap box for the politicos to stand on. I have many VERY successful black freinds, and they don't prescribe to that kind of crutch-filled doctrine.

m1

[Bill Harsey]

How does the military work with this?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

How does the military work with this?

Do you really want to know?

TR

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Do you really want to know?

TR

Mr Harsey - Be careful what you ask for. That's either a rhetorical question or an ambush. Personal opinion - Quotas and set-asides are still alive and well. Sadly the Army's personnel policies tend to hurt the quality minority soldiers more than leaving things alone would. They wind up being unfairly stigmatized by the perception that they were promoted to meet social policy goals vs. their own merits. We won't talk about the rest. My .02 - Peregrino

[Bill Harsey]

My question was asked in complete and total ignorance.

My hope was that things might be better in the military than general public.

[The Reaper]

All Army-level boards are given minority "goals" for promotions, commands, school selections, etc.

Boards are given X-number of eligible packets containing individual personal and performance data. They are told to review and score each packet. The results are tabulated, and the candidates are assigned the aggregate score of the board members' votes. The board may or may not know that only Y number of packets will be selected. There may be as few as 100 selected out of 2000 packets. In that case, the top 100 scores will be selected. #101-2000 will not.

There will usually be a Bell Curve of distribution, with a top 10% or so standing out and another 10% or so who are clearly not qualified. The other 80% will be in the middle, with the middle third seperated by hundredths or thousandths of a point. You might have 100 packets essentially tied. This is fine when you have 90% of the packets to select. It is not when you have 20%to pick. This has lead the Army to define candidates as unqualified, qualified, and "best qualified". The bottom 10% become the unqualified (or less than qualified), the middle group becomes the qualified, and those selected become the "best qualified".

If the board fails to select the appropriate number of minorities (to include females), instead of being released, they are required to remain convened and are directed to review all of the minority packets for evidence of "discrimination" in every packet. If any packet contains anything that could be considered "discriminatory", they are permitted to revote the file. "Discriminatory" has in the past been as selective as a female officer deciding to have her photo taken in a skirt, with a large tattoo visible on her calf, which the board determined may have caused them to have a lesser opinion of her. Note that it was her choice to wear a skirt, rather than trousers, and she chose to not apply makeup or a bandage to the tattoo, or have the photo retouched. There are many such examples. The board revoted her, and she was assigned a new score, which put her above the cut line.

This might be marginally fair, except for one glaring fact. The person who was #100 and was acceptable, is now non-selected, and their file is not revoted, unless they are a minority who might have been discriminated against as well. They are simply "bumped". There is no head to head comparison of those newly selected with those being bumped.

Boards do not normally make their "goals", even after revoting.

IMHO, if the system were going to be fair, all pictures, sex, race, and ethnic data would be removed, along with all names, and files would be assigned an identifying number. No revoting would be permitted. If there were a reason to revote, it would only be to add personnel and all personnel being selected previously would remain on the list.

There is also a Post-Board Screen for certain selections that we do not need to cover.

HTH, Bill.

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Reaper,
Thank you.