09-17-2005, 08:48
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#1
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,879
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USGS Map, White areas?
Does anyone know what the white stands for on USGS topographic maps and what it first, and still could, mean?
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-17-2005, 08:53
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
Does anyone know what the white stands for on USGS topographic maps and what it first, and still could, mean?
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Non-forested/vegetated areas, IIRC.
Or that you have moved off the printed areas and are navigating on the margins.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-17-2005, 09:12
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#3
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,879
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Non-forested/vegetated areas, IIRC.
Or that you have moved off the printed areas and are navigating on the margins.
TR
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I heard an interesting story about the non-forested areas this morning on Field and Stream Radio (broadcast on the Armed Forces Radio Network and hosted by a buddy of mine, Scott Linden).
There can be some vegetation and trees in the white areas... how much vegetation had tactical value.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-17-2005, 11:27
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Benson, Arizona
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I always thought white areas on USGS maps were areas of non-significant vegetation, i.e. in a forested area meadows would appear white. Which would make North Dakota one big white map... 
--- OT --- Mr. Harsey thanks for designing our knife. All the (ehem...) old timers are pretty dang jealous they didn't get one. Mine is #1799, and I was presented it at Sage graduation 22Aug03. Of course I never use it, but it is proudly displayed on my "I love me" shelf in our den. I have no doubt that it would perform flawlessly under the rigors of combat. My fixed back knives need only fit in the "sharpened pry-bar" category and your design falls within the same. Thanks!
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longtab is offline
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09-17-2005, 11:37
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#5
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by longtab
I always thought white areas on USGS maps were areas of non-significant vegetation, i.e. in a forested area meadows would appear white. Which would make North Dakota one big white map...
--- OT --- Mr. Harsey thanks for designing our knife. All the (ehem...) old timers are pretty dang jealous they didn't get one. Mine is #1799, and I was presented it at Sage graduation 22Aug03. Of course I never use it, but it is proudly displayed on my "I love me" shelf in our den. I have no doubt that it would perform flawlessly under the rigors of combat. My fixed back knives need only fit in the "sharpened pry-bar" category and your design falls within the same. Thanks! |
The story I heard this morning as told by a guy who has studied the history of those maps is that "an area is white if it doesn't have enough vegetation to hide one platoon of soldiers per acre."
Your welcome for the knife design, CRK does the hard work of producing it at a very high quality. We both consider this to be the highest honor we could have as knifemakers.
Take the knife down and use it, we will fix whatever you can do to it.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-17-2005, 12:43
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
The story I heard this morning as told by a guy who has studied the history of those maps is that "an area is white if it doesn't have enough vegetation to hide one platoon of soldiers per acre."
Your welcome for the knife design, CRK does the hard work of producing it at a very high quality. We both consider this to be the highest honor we could have as knifemakers.
Take the knife down and use it, we will fix whatever you can do to it.
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Sounds thin.
Check the date on the maps. Most are decades old, so what was true then, may not be true when you are looking at the map. I have seen horizontal data as old as 1935 on issued maps.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-17-2005, 13:04
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#7
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Reaper,
Your right, that is the history behind the original meaning of the white areas on the map.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-17-2005, 13:38
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Non-forested/vegetated areas, IIRC.
Or that you have moved off the printed areas and are navigating on the margins.
TR
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That's the way I also learned it, however with some of the maps I have used there have been white areas in the middle of rain forests where you could hide a regiment. I was told by the folks that issued us the maps that the white area depicted places that they could not confirm by aerial mapping so rather than confuse the issue anymore they just left the area blank. The maps I really loved were the one where the UTM grids converged-that made for interesting navigation and reporting procedures.
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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09-17-2005, 13:47
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#9
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
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The funny thing about those non forested, non vegetated areas is that in some areas that can change back in just a few years.
Jack,
Speaking of forests, I learned a new term yesterday in the local paper. A timber sale is being protested by folks who like to sit in trees and play harps. This patch of forest is being called a "legacy" forest because it is a few big trees with lots of small trees.
It used to be "old growth" was the catch phrase.
The timber sale is also being protested because it is in a watershed. Every square inch of ground in this state is a watershed when it's raining.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-17-2005, 19:10
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
A timber sale is being protested by folks who like to sit in trees and play harps.
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Cut enough of them down with the wayward muscians sitting in them and it gives a whole new meaning to "harpsicord" if you stack them in rows 4x4x8 
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Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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09-17-2005, 20:38
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#11
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Colorado Springs
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Moroney
...and it gives a whole new meaning to "harpsicord" if you stack them in rows 4x4x8
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Now THAT was FUNNY!
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Razor is offline
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09-17-2005, 20:38
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
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Quote:
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Or that you have moved off the printed areas and are navigating on the margins.
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LOL
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He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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09-17-2005, 23:14
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#13
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Gone Huntin'
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 90
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^^^ that's one for the "Quote of the Year".
LMAO
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Maas is offline
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09-29-2005, 08:40
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#14
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Or that you have moved off the printed areas and are navigating on the margins.
TR
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Yes a good quote for the years, also it brings to light the meaning of someone with marginal skills.
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HOLLiS is offline
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07-01-2008, 03:05
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#15
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Asset
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 44
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Board Answer is "Areas where the vegetation has no significant military value"
Mr Harsey's reply fits in well with this. It could also depend on the scale of the map. On maps with greater detail the green areas would serve smaller sized units. Larger scaled maps would serve brigades on up. Be interesting to see some comparisons of the same area on different scales.
OTOH how does a civilian map maker determine green and white areas?
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Diablo Blanco is offline
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