09-17-2005, 08:30
|
#1
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lacey Washington
Posts: 737
|
Magazine Retention
Question:
Why is there such a fixation on retaining empty magazines in Army units? Guys will spend a whole bunch of time trying to stuff empty magazines into their pockets or back into pouches when the situation dictates to just drop them and continue to shoot.
Not sure how this way of doing business came about and am trying to influence commanders to emphasize the soldiers life over holding on to a fifteen dollar empty magazine.
What happened over the years? 
Thank you
Gene
|
|
Gene Econ is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 08:49
|
#2
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
|
Gene:
Actually, last time I checked, mags were more like $6 each.
I think the issue is because they are organizational issue accountable property and do not come in Class V the way bandoliers do.
If you think about it, who do you go to for more, and when was the last time you saw them being dropped off in a resupply?
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 08:50
|
#3
|
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: JBLM
Posts: 1,246
|
Commanders may be afraid of fraud, waste, and abuse.
Agree that an empty mag is a low priority and should be dropped in dire situations. I don't know if it is logistically feasable to drop and go. Also, I've seen ammo drops that are just cases of ammo and no mags.
Lotta different ways to peel this onion. 
|
|
jbour13 is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 09:11
|
#4
|
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet
Posts: 1,495
|
Gene,
The situation should determine what is done. But I can see retaining magazines. A rifle is no good with out them. A full magazine is best, a empty one can be reloaded, NO magazine means rifle don't work. When I was overseas, magazines were in short supply. I saw were soldiers today shared a common opinion that we had. They wanted to carry more ammo.
If you drop a magazine, you may not be able to go back and retreive it later when it is OK to do so. I bet if Ammo came already in magazines, you would not see them concerned about trying to keep empty magazines. I carried 35 magazine (20rds).
You can have all the ammo in the world but with out a magazine, a M16/m14 etc is almost worthless.
|
|
HOLLiS is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 09:17
|
#5
|
|
Guest
|
Sirs, wouldn't it take up much more space to haul magazines than bullets in resupply?
Perhaps that could be an issue, especially with resupply air drops.
Martin
|
|
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 10:45
|
#6
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CO Springs
Posts: 65
|
My CO was death on this in the 82nd
He had served in Somalia with 10th MT and said they couldn't get mags resupplied to save their lives...literally. So I know his take on it, then too, what about the old scenario of being trapped in a firebase (FOB, whatever...) and needing aerial resupply. Those ammo cans don't come with their own magazines.
Seems like a good policy to me.
__________________
“Creating effective intelligence is an inherent and essential responsibility of command. Intelligence failures are failures of command – [just] as operations failures are command failures.” Marine Corps Doctrine Publication 2 - Intelligence
|
|
troy2k is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 20:04
|
#7
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
If you want mags (or better yet loaded mags) in your bundle, you have to pack the bundle yourself and one of your kind has to bring it.
I will drop one on the ground in a heartbeat.
The only reason I can see for not is you don't want to supply the enemy, but with the enemies we have today, I doubt mags are much of a problem for them.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 20:24
|
#8
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lacey Washington
Posts: 737
|
Fellows:
You all have given me some good insight into the thinking behind this topic. Honestly, I have been involved in this type of thing for more than a few years of my life and at times I have to ask again -- kind of like a different set of eyes. Well, I can't see as well as years past but your input shows that things haven't changed and that is of value.
This one is a simple fix.
Gene
|
|
Gene Econ is offline
|
|
|
09-17-2005, 22:27
|
#9
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
whatever happened to the polycarbonate magazine-bullet combination that the Germans were experimenting with...22 years ago...?
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
|
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
|
09-18-2005, 10:02
|
#10
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Benson, Arizona
Posts: 143
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gene Econ
Question:
Why is there such a fixation on retaining empty magazines in Army units? Guys will spend a whole bunch of time trying to stuff empty magazines into their pockets or back into pouches when the situation dictates to just drop them and continue to shoot.
Not sure how this way of doing business came about and am trying to influence commanders to emphasize the soldiers life over holding on to a fifteen dollar empty magazine.
What happened over the years?
Thank you
Gene |
Maybe because they're in bed with the mag dump mag manufaturers... have you seen the price of dump bags lately?! 
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. ~ George Orwell
|
|
longtab is offline
|
|
|
09-18-2005, 14:19
|
#11
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,527
|
Get an EGL Low Profile Folding dumper. Takes up very little space until you need it, is PALS compatible to fit just about anywhere, and can be used for a host of functions besides dumping empty mags.
|
|
Razor is offline
|
|
|
09-18-2005, 15:39
|
#12
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Razor
Get an EGL Low Profile Folding dumper. Takes up very little space until you need it, is PALS compatible to fit just about anywhere, and can be used for a host of functions besides dumping empty mags.
|
Second to that!
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
09-18-2005, 15:50
|
#13
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
Third - I have one too.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
|
10-16-2005, 17:29
|
#14
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 199
|
Guys
Thanks for the plug re: Loppys, sorry I havent been on the last few months.
EGG
__________________
EGG sends
|
|
eggroll is offline
|
|
|
10-17-2005, 10:38
|
#15
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,527
|
Hey! Get your butt off the computer and get back to your sewing machine! 
|
|
Razor is offline
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:13.
|
|
|
Linear Mode
