SOTB Knife Fight

**Roguish Lawyer** · 06-24-2005, 12:34

Not sure what the hesitation was in shooting the guys, but maybe that's just me . . .

http://www.dogbrothers.com/multimedi...knifeattack.rm

Smokin Joe · 06-24-2005, 14:43

They should have meet this end.

Nobody makes enough money to have to go hands on with someone who is pissed off and wielding a knife.

Just my .02 cents

RLK · 06-24-2005, 15:37

RL, you think that was in the UK? I know most of the cops over there don't go on patrol armed (w/a sidearm) and the ones that are armed keep them in the trunk.

The application of boot to head at the end was too conservative in my humble opinion. Somebody should've bit a curb. My $0.02 US.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 06-24-2005, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLK

RL, you think that was in the UK? I know most of the cops over there don't go on patrol armed (w/a sidearm) and the ones that are armed keep them in the trunk.

The application of boot to head at the end was too conservative in my humble opinion. Somebody should've bit a curb. My $0.02 US.

I believe it was Mexico City.

CoLawman · 06-24-2005, 18:29

Well in listening to the audio it is not clear where it takes place. Initially the cops do shoot without much success. The one suspect runs up behind one of the cops and stabs him in the neck. A couple more worthless shots or misdirected shots are fired. The newsman is now complaining or questioning why the two subjects are allowed to chase the police around without being shot until they are disarmed. Then another police officer is stabbed in the back. Again the newsman complains that nothing is being done. He points out that the citizens were in danger as well, highlighting a woman and her child in a car in close proximity.

The police finally corner them and tackle them and begin beating the two. The newsman now begins to complain about how the police are brutalizing the suspects even though they are now disarmed. He then starts counting the number of kicks and punches delivered by one of the cops toward the detained subject.

Sheesh! It is okay to kill them.........but don't beat the snot out of them once you risked life and limb to avoid having to kill them.

A crazy world!

Ooops! Let me make it clear that it is does appear to be Mexico based on dialect, but that is the newscasters dialect, so not clear what hispanic country this took place. Clear as Mud.............I give up.

Smokin Joe · 06-24-2005, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

Well in listening to the audio it is not clear where it takes place. Initially the cops do shoot without much success. The one suspect runs up behind one of the cops and stabs him in the neck. A couple more worthless shots or misdirected shots are fired. The newsman is now complaining or questioning why the two subjects are allowed to chase the police around without being shot until they are disarmed. Then another police officer is stabbed in the back. Again the newsman complains that nothing is being done. He points out that the citizens were in danger as well, highlighting a woman and her child in a car in close proximity.

The police finally corner them and tackle them and begin beating the two. The newsman now begins to complain about how the police are brutalizing the suspects even though they are now disarmed. He then starts counting the number of kicks and punches delivered by one of the cops toward the detained subject.

Sheesh! It is okay to kill them.........but don't beat the snot out of them once you risked life and limb to avoid having to kill them.

A crazy world!

Ooops! Let me make it clear that it is does appear to be Mexico based on dialect, but that is the newscasters dialect, so not clear what hispanic country this took place. Clear as Mud.............I give up.

Thanks CoLawman,

I was guessing the entire way through as to what was being said.

Goggles Pizano · 06-25-2005, 10:21

I wonder if their department was in the midst of an investigation into officer involved shootings the public had deemed "illegal and/or unjustified" (accentuated by the reporters descripting of the beatings)? Could be one of the reasons they were hesitant to fire. Of course their backround was all wrong for a shootout, but that is why they allow us the responsibility of carrying a shield and loaded weapon-make the decision boys and girls.

Smokin Joe · 06-26-2005, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goggles Pizano

I wonder if their department was in the midst of an investigation into officer involved shootings the public had deemed "illegal and/or unjustified" (accentuated by the reporters descripting of the beatings)? Could be one of the reasons they were hesitant to fire. Of course their backround was all wrong for a shootout, but that is why they allow us the responsibility of carrying a shield and loaded weapon-make the decision boys and girls.

Thats why my shooting Coach tells me to get close.....less chance of a miss.

hoepoe · 06-26-2005, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin Joe

Thats why my shooting Coach tells me to get close.....less chance of a miss.

Good morning

Not to come across as a smart aleck, but unfortunately, i have had the displeasure of being confronted by skilled kniefe wielding folk on a few occasions. I have seen somoene close 10m+ in a blink of an eye to succesfully stab someone. Be very very weary of a knife, distance is your friend.

If the attacker is close, don't bother trying to draw (if your weapon is holstered), you won't make it.

As for the video clip, my opinion is they should have been shot many many times. As for the environment for a shootout, i understand, but is it the ideal envronment for a cop killing??

Hoepoe

edited to add: I see my post is a little out of context here, apologies, but i'll leave it as is, as there are some good general points.

Smokin Joe · 06-26-2005, 05:48

Hopoe,

Agreed about the 10m+ distance inwhich you are speaking about.

I am refering to having your gun out, frontsight on target, and advancing on the threat while giving them lead poisioning. What I am refering to is that the LEO's need to be the Neutrializer not the container.

I would offer this: In the supplied video look and the psychological dynamics that are at play.
Who are the aggressors and who are the victims?
Are the Sheepdogs (LEOs) really challenging and fighting the wolves (the badguys with the knives)? Or are they just providing a target or distraction to the wolves from preying on the sheep?

At what point are they going to Man up and Neutrialze the threat? Instead of running around being chased buy men with knives.

Granted this video has different dynamics but, the message is the same. They neutrialized the threat.1 man with knife vs 3 cops

Goggles Pizano · 06-26-2005, 06:25

Strength in numbers.

I agree Joe at some point they had to take control of the situation (which ran too long in my opinion) hence my original questions.

**The Reaper** · 06-26-2005, 08:39

Real knife fighters would not show you the knife before they stick you with it. Look at the shankings that are taught and practiced in prison. Most are sneak attacks. You have to determine ahead of time if someone might have a blade, and be prepared to deal with them, perhaps after being cut.

You can take a knife away from someone if you know what you are doing and the other person is not skilled. You will probably get cut doing it. You need to understand this ahead of time and make your best guess.

If I had a firearm, I would not close with a knife fighter, but would look to put something between us while I pumped rounds into him.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Smokin Joe · 06-26-2005, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Real knife fighters would not show you the knife before they stick you with it. Look at the shankings that are taught and practiced in prison. Most are sneak attacks. You have to determine ahead of time if someone might have a blade, and be prepared to deal with them, perhaps after being cut.

You can take a knife away from someone if you know what you are doing and the other person is not skilled. You will probably get cut doing it. You need to understand this ahead of time and make your best guess.

If I had a firearm, I would not close with a knife fighter, but would look to put something between us while I pumped rounds into him.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Great points Sir.

My response is for the above video that RL posted. At some point they need to take the "Bull buy the Horns" so to speak and fight back.

I also absolutely agree with you having cover or an obstacle would be ideal when confronting someone with a knife. But, I also look at the statical hit ratio of LEO's in dynamic situations; weigh that with the horrible backdrop these guys have and I still think the least risk to society is to close with them to a degree I don't know that I would get inside 10 feet of either one.

So, yes at some point I would stop my advance and rely on my ballistics to do the work.

hoepoe · 06-26-2005, 09:43

I think the bottom line regarding the limited info we have on this video is simple, these cops should have, but did not dish out a large dose of 'led pie'.

\I have a particular distaste for knives and the damage they do.

TR, Sir, yes indeed, when tackling a knife wielder, chances you are will get cut, but sometimes there is no other option.

Keep well all.

Smokin Joe · 06-26-2005, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoepoe

I think the bottom line regarding the limited info we have on this video is simple, these cops should have, but did not dish out a large dose of 'led pie'.

\I have a particular distaste for knives and the damage they do.

TR, Sir, yes indeed, when tackling a knife wielder, chances you are will get cut, but sometimes there is no other option.

Keep well all.

Your hitting the nail on the head.