F-ing FBI

BMT (RIP) · 06-10-2005, 07:18

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QRQ 30 · 06-10-2005, 08:03

A perfect example of Monday Morning quarterbacking.

I doubt if there is/was a single person in the U.S. who would have thought of an operation of the type and scope of 9/11. Of course, NOW everyone does. The indications were hijacking. Until this event hijackers had other purposes in mind than suicide. The procedure was to safely talk/negotiate the plane to the ground.

The FBI blew it but I don't believe anyone would have acted differently BEFORE the incident.

Honestly think of what you would say if prior to 911 someone told you that four airliners would be simultaneously taken over and flown into the WTC and the Pentagon. I would have probably have asked when the movie was coming out.

Our intelligence needed/needs revamping but give credit to a crafty enemy who thinks up totally new and unexpected tactics. OBL wanted to bring down the WTC so bad that this was his second attempt.

**Bill Harsey** · 06-10-2005, 09:15

I know the man who about 10 years ago was invited to brief the Mayor and Police Chief (and staffs) of New York City, in the mayors own office and told them the greatest terrorism risk they faced was from a hijacked aircraft being flown into their tall buildings. The trade centers were not named.

He was laughed out of the room.

jbour13 · 06-10-2005, 09:28

I'm probably sealing my fate to be the laughing stock of this forum by posting this.

Tom Clancy wrote a book called "Debt of Honor" in which this scenario played out against the capitol building. The news had reported about 2 weeks after the 9-11 attacks that Clancy was being interviewed to see what he had known before the attack on the Pentagon and WTC.

Believe me, it's been thought about and asymetric think tanks are a booming buisness because of 9-11.

Maybe PVT Snuffy won't be laughed at when he says "all a terrorist needs to do is infect himself with a communicable disease and fly around touching and coughing on people."

If you have an idea there is a way to refine it to an effective means.

**Bill Harsey** · 06-10-2005, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbour13

I'm probably sealing my fate to be the laughing stock of this forum by posting this.

Tom Clancy wrote a book called "Debt of Honor" in which this scenario played out against the capitol building. The news had reported about 2 weeks after the 9-11 attacks that Clancy was being interviewed to see what he had known before the attack on the Pentagon and WTC.

Believe me, it's been thought about and asymetric think tanks are a booming buisness because of 9-11.

Maybe PVT Snuffy won't be laughed at when he says "all a terrorist needs to do is infect himself with a communicable disease and fly around touching and coughing on people."

If you have an idea there is a way to refine it to an effective means.

I remember something about Clancey getting interviewed because of that book.

QRQ 30 · 06-10-2005, 09:50

[QUOTE]Believe me, it's been thought about and asymetric think tanks are a booming buisness because of 9-11. [?QUOTE]

Agreed it has been thought about but most gave it as much seriousness as James Bond or Star Wars.; The key to the above quote IMHO is "becausse of 911"

I have to say that the danger from OBL isn't constant terrorism. The man is IMHO a genious at innovation, planing, training and execution. It was about 7-8 years between attempts to drop the WTC,

I would predict that his next operation will be something completely different and as such unexpected. He needs to be taken out of the equation. It probably won't stop day to day terrorism but it may prevent more devastating and unexpected strikes.

jbour13 · 06-10-2005, 11:40

QRQ 30

I agree partly with your observation of my post.

My intent was to state that the man that Mr. Harsey was referring to was not the only one to think of this scenario playing out. That man was in a position to be listened to and was ignored and heckled for his thoughts.

We all know that Tom Clancy tends to be overly dramatic and add fluff to his stories, but his stories have some sliver of truth to them. Mr. Clancy published this book in 1994. 1 year after the first WTC attempt and 7 before the big one.

Now with looking at the timeline you posted, do you think that OBL/UBL could've gotten an idea from this? No conspiracy theory, just an observation.

My biggest point to take away from this is that these threats have been thought of before and ignored. Clancy put it in the written word and it was taken lightly because it was a fictional portrayal. But ultimately it was ignored and people act as if this was some fluke idea that made it to fruition.

There are only few things that are impossible in this world. I think that since our blinders have been smacked off of our faces we should take that as a sign of the times and be a little less conformist like our enemy. You yourself have spoke of adaptability in countering the enemy by emulating their lifestyles and habits. How soon America forgets that.

QRQ 30 · 06-10-2005, 11:52

Quote:

My biggest point to take away from this is that these threats have been thought of before and ignored. Clancy put it in the written word and it was taken lightly because it was a fictional portrayal. But ultimately it was ignored and people act as if this was some fluke idea that made it to fruition.

This is absolutely true. I say don't lay it specifically on the FBI or some other intelligence agency. I would think UBL probably read the book or maybe Clancy real his mind. IMO if the FBI had come out with this theory they would not have been taken too seriously. Just look at the reactions to the over-flight alerts. Everyone in power was criticised for sounding false alarms.

Can you imagine the furor if the airporsts had suddenly started doing 100% searches and taking away anything that could be used as a weapon?

Personally, I think they should take everything from passengers ans issue hospital scrubs to wear -- punkt!!

jbour13 · 06-10-2005, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

This is absolutely true. I say don't lay it specifically on the FBI or some other intelligence agency. I would think UBL probably read the book or maybe Clancy real his mind. IMO if the FBI had come out with this theory they would not have been taken too seriously. Just look at the reactions to the over-flight alerts. Everyone in power was criticised for sounding false alarms.

Can you imagine the furor if the airporsts had suddenly started doing 100% searches and taking away anything that could be used as a weapon?

Personally, I think they should take everything from passengers ans issue hospital scrubs to wear -- punkt!!

Very true, it's nice to see someone else on the same sheet.

It is true that you can only cry wolf so much.

jbour13 · 06-10-2005, 11:56

[QUOTE=QRQ 30]
Can you imagine the furor if the airporsts had suddenly started doing 100% searches and taking away anything that could be used as a weapon?
QUOTE]

I can't carry knives or anything that is looked at as being an offensive tool. I do however buy a Time magazine everytime I fly. Anyone who has the strength to roll one of those can smack the snot out of someone.

The masses would freak if they were able to see what an average person is capable of when frightened and cornered. I hate flying for that reason, mass hysteria in confined spaces is not my idea of a fun time.

Sigi · 06-11-2005, 06:04

I read this book a couple weeks ago. The amount of leads and information that was ignored or not followed up on is disturbing to say the least.

The author places most of the blame with the FBI, but the CIA, DSS, NSC, INS and the State Department all screwed the pooch.

They could have uncovered this plot if they would have taken terrorism more seriously prior to 9/11. That is what we pay them for.

QRQ 30 · 06-11-2005, 06:49

Perhaps Sigi is correct but I still feel that if this plot had been uncovered and presented to someone who could do something about it they would have been laughed off of the planet.

Let's don't put all of the blame on our security when the population in general was lethargic and seems to be returning to that condition. There was no Patriot Act prior to 0/11.

Cincinnatus · 06-11-2005, 08:15

Terry,

Read "1,000 Years for Revenge" it's a real eye opener. Actually, if you have any BP issues, don't read it! I was so upset that I must have set it down a dozen times.

One of the sub themes/ story threads is about a guy, IIRC, named Ronny Buca who was a reserve SF soldier and active FDNY inspector. He died in the Towers trying to save others. He had put most of the plot together, w/o access to classified data, had tried repeatedly to get something done and was rebuffed and ignored.

Another story thread is about a female FBI agent who had a good source whose intel was ignored and mishandled, as he tried to warn of elements of the plot. This is NOT the female FBI agent in MN, but one in the NY office.

The FBI screwed the pooch on this one.

CoLawman · 06-11-2005, 08:30

I'm not so sure that the Title to this forum "F-ing FBI" is appropriate. The FBI has extensive successes against the Scum who perpetrate terrorism. The WTC bombing, Lockerbie, etc. Negatively labeling them as a result of Kangaroo court findings is unfair.

I apologize for being a little sensitive in this area. But law enforcement all too often is criticized by the press and special interest groups to the detriment of those dedicated to their mission.

QRQ 30 · 06-11-2005, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cincinnatus

Terry,

Read "1,000 Years for Revenge" it's a real eye opener. Actually, if you have any BP issues, don't read it! I was so upset that I must have set it down a dozen times.

One of the sub themes/ story threads is about a guy, IIRC, named Ronny Buca who was a reserve SF soldier and active FDNY inspector. He died in the Towers trying to save others. He had put most of the plot together, w/o access to classified data, had tried repeatedly to get something done and was rebuffed and ignored.

Another story thread is about a female FBI agent who had a good source whose intel was ignored and mishandled, as he tried to warn of elements of the plot. This is NOT the female FBI agent in MN, but one in the NY office.

The FBI screwed the pooch on this one.

NOPE!! As far as I am concerned a lethargic american society was to blame. Sometimes I think our national bird should be the ostrich who sticks his head in the sand so he won't be bothered by the dangers around him.

In your own words people were re-buffed and ignored. We don't want to be bothered. We just need to have a herd of scape goats to put the blame on!!

Had a president tried to enact the provisions of the Patriot Act prior to 9/11 he would have lost. God knows there is enough resistance now.

This happens frequently. How many times have you heard of a suicide or Columbine styly or Post Office massacre only to find that the signs were there all along but only recognized after the fact?