18D CIB eligibility

[D9 (RIP)]

Just saw an e-mail from my Gp indicating that as of 05JUN05:

1) 18D's will no longer be eligible for the CMB, and will be eligible for the CIB instead. Same criteria as other CIB awards applies.

2) 18D's with prior awards of the CMB during the period 18SEP01-03JUN05 can have that award retroactively changed to a CIB through an appeal to HRC. If appealed, the CMB will be revoked and the CIB rewarded retroactive to the date of the original award.

The e-mail referenced HQ, DA letter of 03JUN05.

FWIW.

[Scimitar]

Holy Necro Post Batman,

Hunting around the net and just saw this myself. (What can I say, it takes a while to get news all the way down here)

Found it interesting that they brought it in 89 and then discontinued it again in 05. Thought a medic, any medic, deserves the recognition of working his magic under fire. But I guess not.

Anyone venture a guess at why the change?

Perhaps the whole "18D'ers arn't covered by Geneva", so arn't 'really' medics thing?


Scimitar

[Richard]

SF went through this same type rigamarole before and a 91B4S could select either a CIB or CMB as they (1) either had both MOSes and had served in both roles or (2) had simply served in both roles and had an EER stating such a duty position (e.g., Strike Force Company Commander or Mobile Strike Force Reconnaissance Platoon Leader). Some chose the CMB as a matter of personal pride in being recognized as a combat medic, others chose the CIB because--as a Class 1 award vs a CMB which is a Class 2 award--it was worth more points on a promotion board. MOSes other than 11B/C (e.g., 12B, 05B) were only considered for the CIB and never the CMB.

That was then...don't know the deal now.

Richad's $.02

[Scimitar]

Thanks for the history Richard,

Just seems a little off not including the 18D, but hey what would I know.

S

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

...Just seems a little off not including the 18D, but hey what would I know...

It is my understanding, from talking to the medic on 555, that SF medics asked the award to be changed from the CMB to the CIB because SF medics are combatants, not support personnel.

The reasoning is because a regular line medics primary job is being a medic (combat support.) An SF Medics primary job is everything but being a medic; we are working ranges, talking to the HN soldiers, building charges, working on our own weapons, loading freq's in radios, building rapport with indig, etc...etc...



HTH,

Crip

[zfm7th]

Here's the deal on medics and the CIB.

After the 18 series MOS and branch were formed in the 80's, the reg for the CIB was changed to authroize awarding to 18s with the exception of 18Ds, who would get the CMB. This remained in place through Panama, El Sal, and Desert Storm. It wasn't until after 9/11 and the vastly increased role of SF in combat operations that this came up. Although we had guys in lots of fighs through the 80s and 90s, it was nothing compared to post 9/11. I think we had over 80 teams in Iraq in Spring 03.

After my Bn rotated into AFG and Iraq, I had a number of medics ask me why they couldn't be awarded CIBs since their role in combat was that of a combatant (both realistically and legally) and the CIB was better recognition for their contribution. I agreed with the guys and bounced it off of the SF Command CSM. He told me to check with the Group CSMs (which I did) and if they concurred (which they did), then I could write up the change. I wrote it up and submitted it through the command to the Army in mid-2003. The CIB, by the way, is also considered a higher award (Cat I vs. Cat II badge).

The USASOC CSM at the time was a huge supporter and assisted with this process. It took a long time to go through the system, but was finally approved in 2005. If a medic had been awarded a CMB during the post-9/11 era, he could re-submit for a CIB and have the CMB rescinded. He would have to prove qualification for the CIB because they are a bit different. If he wanted to keep the CMB, he could do that, but could only receive one combat badge (CIB or CMB) during the period of service covered, which covers 9/11 up to the present. If you see a guy wearing both, which is possible, he received the CMB in a prior era (Vietnam, or 1975-9/11), or he got the CMB as a combat medic working for a unit before he came to the SFQC.

The CIB is the award our guys deserve and I'm glad the Army approved the change. I had several medics as acting team sergeants in both fights and to award them a CMB for what they did would have been an injustice. Additionally, we've had medics do tremendous things in combat, one earning a DSC in Afghanistan, and the awarding of the CIB is totally appropriate. They're warriors first, and medics second, and deserving of the recognition that comes with the CIB.

Zfm7th

[Scimitar]

Thank you zfm7th for the detailed info, glad to here it was group initiated.

Not that it effects me, but it's nice to understand the reasoning.

Thanks again,

Scimitar

[rcm_18d]

Sweet

About time.

The CIB has a gun on it and the CMB has a strecher. Nobody really cares that much about awards, but it is what it is!

I think most 18d's will feel the same that, a CIB is better than a CMB. I don't see myself doing the paperwork to change it, but it is nice to know.

Thanks

[18D4VRWB]

I must have a different perspective here. Avoiding the promotion point issue which is a valid argument, I kept my CMB. Both are earned in combat and if you have been on an ODA in combat and received one then there is and should be a great since of pride in having one. An 18D has not only the responsibility of serving as the "shooter" which everyone loves to say but the added duty of saving everyone else’s "shooter ass". (Ok I know self-aid, buddy aid, and medic aid but we get the idea right) For previous combat arms folks with those skill sets then think of what you have to offer to the team.

Without getting into semantics, both awards are the same in SF. Think of past conflicts and those medics such as the 29th ID at D Day, Korea, and Vietnam. Those patching wounded carried one hell of burden and where part of the assault. The rush to convert to CIB seemed a bit like poor follow through with a shot group. The award is distinct, shows you earned it early in the GWOT and hell, if you’re not getting out, the next authorization period outside of GWOT will authorize you a CIB. You can wear both with distinction!

"Do no Harm....To friendlies"

[zfm7th]

All true from the good 18D above. When I researched it for the fellas and wrote up the recommendation, not all agreed...but the vast majority did. Both awards stand in recognition for great work on the battlefield and should be worn with pride whichever one a medic who had a CMB chooses to wear. As we all know in SF, you'll never get everybody to agree on anything. Try buying a holster that everybody likes.

zfm7th

[Kingfisher]

Excellent discussion here. I didn't and still don't care about what catagory this or that award is. I was awarded a CMB for caring for my teammates under fire and am proud to have been awarded it. Besides, everyone knows the medics are the best shooters on the team.