Do you oppose dress codes in school?

**Kyobanim** · 05-19-2005, 13:05

Goggles Pizano · 05-19-2005, 13:23

Hold the phone. The narrator states that the dress code (stictly enforced I assume) involves no gang colors and tucking in shirts. Wow. I feel much safer now!

This is ridiculous. You could solve three quarters of that problem with a metal detector. How long before the kids figure out ankle holsters in that school? Or sharpened plastic knives? This issue is deeper than gang colors and untucked shirts. The sooner the Education establishment in this country puts down the purple grading pens, halts the concern for student "feelings" and starts actually teaching children this issue will continue.

For the record when I went to school (public grade school, private HS) I never saw, nor heard of, guns or shootings in a school. Then again I was more worried about a priest kicking my ass for being in the hallway between class!

I do not oppose dress codes by the way.

Manstein · 05-19-2005, 14:20

I support dress codes, but not for the sole reason of weapons concealment.

Believe it or not, but many HS kids these days (especially girls), probably put more thought into what outfit they are going to wear that day, than studying for a certain test. School is not a fashion runway, and shouldn't ever be considered that. They can focus more on learning with a dress code instituted, hopefully.

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 05-19-2005, 14:38

I got assigned to the University of Vermont in the mid 70s to teach ROTC. The PMS at the time figured out a way to "expose" more students to the program and hopefully recruit them as participants. At the time every student at UVM had to take Physical Training of some sort for graduation and so this genius decided to offer "adventure modules" that would count as a half PT credit and got the University to buy off on it. Well guess who was the primary insturctor for Mountaineering, Combatives and Survival-yup, me. We had a dress code for anyone that took our program and consequently were often challenged by the more radical students looking for a way to make their politics known and their disatisfaction with anything military. For the most part the dress codes had to do with proper attire for the particular programs but also were there to keep the class room neutral and not a forum for personal agendas not conducive to learning. For the most part the students complied with our standards but this one clown was going to prove that he did not have to do anything that was not to his liking. He showed up the first day of my introduction to mountaineering in clothes he had to have gotten out of a dumpster and bare feet. Now normally I don't make personal judgements about a person's attire not being the GQ type myself but this guy had a gold chains, a rolex, and pulled up in a XKE. At the first break I called him aside and told him that unless he could comply with simple instructions that he was not going to be allowed to participate in the course. He gave me some lip, told me that he could do what he damn well pleased and that no soldier-boy baby-killer could tell him anything. As the break ended everyone but my knew found friend arrived on time. I asked one of the students if they had seen him and he told me that he had not finished his soda and would be back in class when he felt his break was over. Sensing that he was going to make a grand entrance just to drive home his point, I turned the class over to my AI and walked out into the rug covered hall way and seeded 20 feet with thumb tacks and returned to the class. Fifteen minutes later came a series of yelps and expletives from my bared footed warrior. He dropped the course.

Jack Moroney-believing that dress codes instill a sense of self-discipline and serve a purpose

jasonglh · 05-19-2005, 15:01

I went to Catholic school from 5th - 8th grade and then a large public high school. I think at the time the uniform was more to do with making no obvious differences in social class. It didnt work as some wore cheaper clothes than others and even though there were no tags you could tell the nicer button down shirts. Funny that at the time I hated those light blue shirts but now if I go somewhere that I need to wear a tie I wear that same kind of shirt.

As far as weapons go in or around 1986 I remember a kid getting stabbed at school and another bringing a pistol to school and being expelled. I think my highschool was around 1000 students in 4 grades.

**Airbornelawyer** · 05-19-2005, 15:25

I went to a pseudo-inner city high school (Florida doesn't have a lot of true inner cities). We had a number of fights and I got attacked by a gang once. Also two drive-bys at my house (after my brother had joined the local PD).

One of the local gangs, the Raw Dogs, cut their name in hair on the back of their heads. Uniforms wouldn't help much there.

The only uniforms were for our AFJROTC cadets. We wore those once a week. Somewhere there's a picture from the Palm Beach Post of me - pre-growth spurt baby-faced cuteness and all - when I was a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 10th grade C/A1C. I'm always in favor of uniforms because I look damned good in one.

The Dave · 05-19-2005, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manstein

I support dress codes, but not for the sole reason of weapons concealment.

Believe it or not, but many HS kids these days (especially girls), probably put more thought into what outfit they are going to wear that day, than studying for a certain test. School is not a fashion runway, and shouldn't ever be considered that. They can focus more on learning with a dress code instituted, hopefully.

My thoughts exactly. I didn't go to a school that had dress codes, so I can't base my opinion from experience, but I believe for that reason, they're a good idea.

lksteve · 05-19-2005, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Jack Moroney-believing that dress codes instill a sense of self-discipline and serve a purpose

i agree...i don't care if it's at school or at work...for some reason, survey crew members seem to feel, that since practical clothing for the profession usually includes jeans and some sort of boots, that any other grooming is not necessary...i am not a spit and polish fanatic, but i simply ask my crews to show up wearing clean and servicable clothes, be clean-shaven or at least have a groomed beard, and not smell...i also ask them to wear a shirt with a collar and a pocket, although once on a job site, t-shirts (orange with a company logo, provided gratis) are acceptable...what they look and smell like after 8-10 hours of surveying on construction sites, crawling through thickets and the like is never an issue...if a guy misses shaving one day, no biggie...if he misses twice, he hears from me, in my ever-so-gentle manner cultivated in the Army...

one of the guys has balked until i called him into my office, pointed at a weekend's worth of whiskers and asked him if he was growing a beard...he said no and i said "that's one..." he then asked what would i have said if he had said yes to the question of growing a beard...i told him that i would have said fine, trim what isn't beard and by the way, "that's one"...

so far, several clients (and even contractors) have complimented the crews on their performance and their appearance...it should help the guys get better pay raises next month...they don't understand (or don't seem to understand) that appearance does count...it doesn't outstrip competence, but is often seen as a subset of competence...

aricbcool · 05-19-2005, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Jack Moroney-believing that dress codes instill a sense of self-discipline and serve a purpose

Thank you Sir for the great story! UW at it's finest!

When I saw the video posted here, (spoiler alert) I smiled when the kid pulled out the six or seven hand guns. I laughed when he pulled the uzi, thinking it was through. But the shotgun? Damn!

I think the video is misguided scare tactics.

As mentioned above, uniforms aren't going to solve weapons problems. They aren't going to solve gang problems either. As soon as the student steps off campus, the uniform comes off and the colors go right back on (unless of course the kid wears the colors underneath something as was common where I'm from.)

The best way to make our schools safe is to start by making the community safe. Not the other way around.

And as for uniforms? I think they're a great way to instill discipline, a learning oriented focus, and a sense of community that is sorely lacking in today's "all about me" generation.

--Aric

**Roguish Lawyer** · 05-19-2005, 18:48

Make them all wear spandex!

Gypsy · 05-19-2005, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manstein

I support dress codes, but not for the sole reason of weapons concealment.

Believe it or not, but many HS kids these days (especially girls), probably put more thought into what outfit they are going to wear that day, than studying for a certain test. School is not a fashion runway, and shouldn't ever be considered that. They can focus more on learning with a dress code instituted, hopefully.

Ditto. BTDT with the Catholic school uniform, but though some of us looked better than others

it was all about school studies as there wasn't necessarily that big of a distraction with "street clothes".

I drive past a high school every day on my way to work. It's a wonder the male students get any studying done...these girls are some of the most scantily clad I've seen outside of a bar setting.

brewmonkey · 05-19-2005, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manstein

I support dress codes, but not for the sole reason of weapons concealment.

Believe it or not, but many HS kids these days (especially girls), probably put more thought into what outfit they are going to wear that day, than studying for a certain test. School is not a fashion runway, and shouldn't ever be considered that. They can focus more on learning with a dress code instituted, hopefully.

I agree but they have to restrict it all. Including shoes/sneakers, backpacks and so on. We had a problem where they had a dress code so the kids switched to backpacks for status symblos. Nothing like a 13 year old kid with a $300 Pacific Design, Brenthaven or some other top of the line backpack while someone else is humping an Eastland K-Mart version. Shoes are the same way, one kid is sporting $125 Rockports and another is hitting Pay-Less Shoes for $15 sneakers. Believe it or not pens need to be the same way, Bic ball points and that is it. You know if they don't make it like that some kid is going to be sporting a top of the line Waterman (I love mine!!!)

It needs to be top to bottom complete and everyone looks almost the same. Khaki or Blue trousers and White, Black or Green polo shirts. Girls can wear skirts in warmer weather and boys can wear shorts.

When we put our son in Catholic school it was also easier to buy school clothes as well as cheaper.

GTRich · 05-19-2005, 20:02

I think that clip may have been from the fat man's anti-gun fantasy flick.

lksteve · 05-19-2005, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRich

I think that clip may have been from the fat man's anti-gun fantasy flick.

dunno about that, but i would have loved to see the kid walk with that arsenal hanging off of his body...

jasonglh · 05-19-2005, 20:14

Quote:

I drive past a high school every day on my way to work. It's a wonder the male students get any studying done...these girls are some of the most scantily clad I've seen outside of a bar setting.

You should try sitting through one of my RN school lectures with all the low rise pants, Victorias Secret thongs and french pedicured toes. I couldnt be more distracted if we started having class at Hooters.