Ar-15

[ccrn]

I am in the process of looking at AR-15's and would like some opinions. Ive been reading AR15.com and other places but would like to see what you guys think.

The main use will be weekly trips to the range for much needed practice.

I just need a basic platform and for now plan to keep it simple ie iron sites with no gear attached etc. But I would like some flexibility to up grade so have been looking at things like detachable site handle so I could get an optic site later.

My main concern is whether to get a 16" or 20" barrel. The unit Im in uses 20" A2s, but other units I like shoot M4s. I am also aware that 20" is more powerful but I like the feel of the 16".

I like Colt, Bushmaster, and RR but have been seeing quite a bit of DPMS around as well as Olympia. Budget is an issue but so is a dependable platform. Id also lke to have a factory built weapon as opposed to mixed uppers an lowers etc-

Thanks in advance

[GackMan]

LMT was offering a discount to AD Military and LE. You might want to look into that. They make some NICE blasters!

Of the ones you listed, I'd say get a RRA "Entry Tactical" chrome lined, shit-can that goofy tactical carry handle and you will be good to go.

If you can have the coin, get a colt. The Bushmasters don't seem to last. That is from observing them in a LE environment and really... they are not abused that badly.


Since you are thinking of an entry lever gun, have you thought about building your own? Get a receiver and then purchase the parts? you can get exactly what you want for under $800.

[ccrn]

GackMan,

Yes I had thought of putting one together but read that factory assembled ARs did better at classes that involved heavy shooting over multiple days.

I had considered the detachable site handle because I could dx it later for an optic.

Right now I can get a slighty used Colt A2 20" HBar chromed with detachable site handle for $800.00. That is out of my price range but the guy would let me put it on lay away.

The thing is Im still a bit partial to 16" barrels-

Thanks for the input

[jatx]

ccrn,

I saw some NIB no-ban Bushmaster 16" A3's w/ the detachable handle and chromed barrel on Gunsamerica.com for $850 the other day. I believe they had threaded muzzles so that you could switch out the flash hiders easily if you so choose, and I also believe there were versions available with both carbine amd mid-length handguards. There is a dealer on the same site from Norcross, GA, that should be able to get you a similar setup from RRA for $750ish, can't remember his name though. Both might be worth checking out.

[ktek01]

Originally Posted by ccrn

My main concern is whether to get a 16" or 20" barrel. The unit Im in uses 20" A2s, but other units I like shoot M4s. I am also aware that 20" is more powerful but I like the feel of the 16".

Thanks in advance

Go with what your unit has for training. If you go to another unit later with M4s you can always change it over, but I would train with what you may have to fight with now.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by ccrn

I am also aware that 20" is more powerful but I like the feel of the 16".

I don't believe that the 20" has any more power than the 16" and if there is, it's negligible. However, the 20" will give you more accuracy for further distances. I would recommend that you go with a flat-top on either one. Bushmaster is my preference.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Archangel

I don't believe that the 20" has any more power than the 16" and if there is, it's negligible. However, the 20" will give you more accuracy for further distances. I would recommend that you go with a flat-top on either one. Bushmaster is my preference.

Archangel, you are incorrect.

The 20" barrel adds about 50 meters to the effective terminal ballistics range (2700 fps threshold) of either the M193 or M855 ammo. While that does not sound like much, it is actually about 25-35% difference, as it extends it 95 meters to 150 meters with the M855, and from 150 to 200 meters with the M193.

The barrel length is irrelevant to accuracy. The sight radius MIGHT be, if you are shooting irons. If you have a flattop, you should be shooting optics.

The only other effect of the 20" is that the increased velocity of the longer barrel will help it shoot flatter at longer ranges.

What is the basis for comparison to recommend the BM over anything else?

TR

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Archangel, you are incorrect.

The 20" barrel adds about 50 meters to the effective terminal ballistics range (2700 fps threshold) of either the M193 or M855 ammo. While that does not sound like much, it is actually about 25-35% difference, as it extends it 95 meters to 150 meters with the M855, and from 150 to 200 meters with the M193.

The barrel length is irrelevant to accuracy. The sight radius MIGHT be, if you are shooting irons. If you have a flattop, you should be shooting optics.

The only other effect of the 20" is that the increased velocity of the longer barrel will help it shoot flatter at longer ranges.

What is the basis for comparison to recommend the BM over anything else?

TR

Thank you for the correction sir. I've learned something new tonight.

As far as the BM, it is just my preference. I've built a dozen or so AR's for myself & my buddies. Unlike some of the other uppers that I've used, I've never had any double-feeding/extraction issues with any BM uppers (or Colt's).

[GackMan]

Originally Posted by ccrn

Yes I had thought of putting one together but read that factory assembled ARs did better at classes that involved heavy shooting over multiple days.

I wouldn't put too much faith into that. I've used rifles that I built at some of the 'Disneyland' schools like Thunder Ranch and I abused the shit out of them and I never had to go to my vehicle for a spare... (JINX). I specifically used rifles that I knew only cose me $600-$700 to build in some classes because I wanted to see how they held up.

Given your budget, I'd say build your own and get what you want.

I've seen nice, quality built rifles from reputable manufactures blow-up and I've seen the several bolt keys come loose from bushmasters (for some reason it seems like it is a trend).

if you have $800 +/- to spend, get a rifle, build it with good parts that you do your self. You'll be in a better position to fix it if the need should arise and you'll have 100% QA/QC over what goes into it and how.

[Psywar1-0]

I would go with the 20 In upper, just so you can train with what you are issued. That being said I would also probably have a M4 upper and stock so that you can quickly change over if M4's come out of the woodwork during pre deployment training.

TR-
Do you have any recommendations for AR purchases in the Ft. bragg area? I've decided that I need one also, and was curious about where or how I should get one (i.e build it or buy it).

AP

[The Reaper]

I usually shop at Ed's on US 1 between Vass and Southern Pines.

Peregrino does some shopping in Fayetteville, he can make a recommendation, I think he uses Shooter's Pawn.

Jim's is the place to lookat the variety, but his prices are high and he has screwed friends of mine over before.

I would look at RRA, Armalite, or Bushmaster. Colt's are very high now.

If you have $800 and can find what you want, buy it assembled. If you don't have the cash all at once, or want something no one offers, buy the lower and part it out.

Good luck.

TR

TR- Thank you for the info. BTW I've had a number of bad experiences with Jims also.

[Prester John]

I wouldn't buy anything but RRA. I had some issue with one of my Bushies and have had 4 RRA's with not even a hiccup.

The for sale forums on AR-15.com are the BEST place to pickup guns. I have gotten nothing but smoking deals on every gun I've bought off there. The sellers are flexible, will haggle a litte, and are happy to mail to an FFL. If they are in NC they usually will drive a good distance for a Face to Face transfer.

Doug

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I usually shop at Ed's on US 1 between Vass and Southern Pines.

Peregrino does some shopping in Fayetteville, he can make a recommendation, I think he uses Shooter's Pawn.

Jim's is the place to lookat the variety, but his prices are high and he has screwed friends of mine over before.

I would look at RRA, Armalite, or Bushmaster. Colt's are very high now.

If you have $800 and can find what you want, buy it assembled. If you don't have the cash all at once, or want something no one offers, buy the lower and part it out.

Good luck.

TR

AP - What TR said. I use Shooter's, I've known the guys for years and they've always treated everybody I know well - good guys all around and not a lot of opinionated BS to deal with. (I like Walter Mitties about as much as TR and TS do - NOT - and you always seem to find the really obnoxious ones trying to sell you your next gun.) The guys at Ed's will be happy to help you out too. TR also has a buddy in Wendell that is a good guy to check out. The only reason I would ever walk in the door at Jim's is to find out what's new. I have some personal problems with his business practices. The best bet for the average shooter is to buy a complete system. I would start with RRA, then go to Armalite. IMNSHO Colt's are grossly over rated. I've got a Bushmaster upper that I had real problems getting to work right. Other people have good luck with them though. Now the rest of the story. I haven't bought a complete gun in years. Nowdays I buy uppers or build them/have them built and swap them around on my recievers. The big three are once again - RRA, Armalite, and Bushmaster. In my opinions (and the guys I shoot with) DPMS and Olympic Arms have spotty reputations when it comes to Quality Control. Personally if I was going to part out a rifle I would buy a reciever from Shooter's then go to Delton (www.del-ton.com) and talk to Tony or Cassandra. They buy quality parts at volume prices and you can realize some significant savings dealing with them. Really good people, Tony knows a lot about the weapon and configuring it and they're willing to work with you to get you what you want. They frequent the Fayetteville and Raleigh (May 7-8 if you're around) gun shows though most of their business is internet based. You can save a little money that way and take advantage of the weapon's modularity. Then you don't have to decide 16" or 20" questions - get one, go TDY, save money, and get the other. The only PITA is changing the stocks (do it a couple times and you'll save the money for another reciever pretty quickly). This is based on my personal experiences, your mileage may vary. But - I am VERY picky about who I'm willing to support with my patronage/dollars and I'm even worse about who I'll recommend. Good luck however you go and much enjoyment out of whatever you choose. Just my .02 - Peregrino