Are we backsliding?

QRQ 30 · 03-26-2005, 08:24

Perhaps this is taking place nation wide but South Carolina has implemented a program whereby parents can pick the school they send their children. The tax money will follow the children.

Am I alone in seeing this as a regression to segregation and the "separate but equal" concept? I can see it now: "Sorry we are all filled up" to black children.

My grand daughters attend an elementary school with a black principal. She is the most energetic educator I have ever seen and the school, as well as she, gets many awards. The interesting fact is that there is one additional black teacher and not a single black student.

Sweetbriar · 03-26-2005, 15:01

Why would they especially target black children to refuse entrance? Because there is no tax paying black middle class? Because all educators and politicians hate black people? Because black parents are too stupid to figure out how to apply for school transfer in a timely manner and therefore all the white kids would fill up the school roster first? Because the black community doesn't own cars and can't figure out how to transport their kids to the preferred schools?

Well, no, of course not. I don't mean to be ugly, but could you be more specific in how this would result in racial segregation being already more than it is now? (White flight first occurred when I was bussed 30+ years ago, so it is already factored in.) Parents that care about their children's education will do what it takes. Educators and school systems need a reality check on their effectiveness, IMO.

**Peregrino** · 03-26-2005, 15:52

It's about time parents have the right to punish failing schools by denying them enrollement and money. All the hand-wringing about resurgent prejudice has more to do with killing voucher programs (that minority parents had as much or more to gain from) that parents could use to hold failing schools accountable. Studies have continuously shown that students whose parents actually care about their education consistently outperform those whose parents don't care/participate. Parents willing to seek out better schools for their children in hopes of furthering their education and preparing them to succeed in life are economically punished under the current system. Personally I think every parent forced to send their children to private schools in search of a quality education should be rebated that portion of their property taxes that goes to support the public school system. The educational establishment can scream prejudice all they want, the facts are that they have adopted a standard of mediocrity with their "no child left behind" programs. Parents who want more for their children should not be forced to tolerate schools that target the lowest common denominator and deny opportunities (read a basic - let alone quality education) to average, not to mention gifted children. BTW - Study the demographics. Prejudice has nothing to do with it. When given a choice, i.e. left to their own devices, studies show that population groups tend to VOLUNTARILLY re-segregate themselves unless artificially controlled. FWIW - Peregrino

**The Reaper** · 03-26-2005, 15:57

Here here!!

TR

**Roguish Lawyer** · 03-26-2005, 19:04

Peregrino, you have my vote.

QRQ 30 · 03-26-2005, 19:33

I don't know so don't get ugly. I'm asking.

Would competition for tax monies lead to hijacking of the better teachers? Wouldn't a solution be a higher standard for certifying all teachers, with an accompanying higher salary?

I went to parochial schools all the way through high school. At that time they were tax exempt but that has ended with a resulting decrease in parochial schools. The result of endng their tax exemption was the closing of many schools placing a heavier load upon the public school system.

**The Reaper** · 03-26-2005, 19:48

I went to a public school, largely vocational.

College prep was near non-existant, and I suffered for it. My parents could not afford private school for us.

The public school system babysat large numbers of students who did not care, and neither did their parents, it was a day care service. Their disinterest and disruption dragged the entire class to a mediocre level as the teachers tried to keep them involved. Would I have preferred to go to a school where people took an interest in their kid's grades, and the kids tried their best? You betcha. Which school would I send my kids to? The one where they could learn the most and would be held to the highest standards.

IMHO, there is a world of difference in being told that you can go wherever you want, and being told that you can't go there (or have to go there).

TR

**Pete** · 03-26-2005, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrino

It's about time parents have the right to punish failing schools by denying them enrollement and money..... - Peregrino

My oldest two are in high school and at the top of their class. The BS and PC that was inflicted on them by the public school system will not be repeated on our younest.

I've voted with my feet on her. She starts school this fall, a private school. Little hard on the budget but we'll do it anyway.

Pete

**Peregrino** · 03-26-2005, 21:58

I am a product of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg (NC) school system desegregation experiment. I went from a quality - yes it was segregated - grade school to one of the worst junior high schools in the city. The court ordered ratio was 70% white to 30% black. They failed miserably (exactly reversed) because the parents who had the means enrolled their children in private schools. Mine couldn't afford that luxury. As far as I'm concerned it was an unmitigated disaster. Aspects of my education and ability to learn are still negatively affected even today, 35 years later. To add insult to injury, everything I learned about prejudice and it's attendant evils was taught me by roving gangs of "disenfranchised minorities" who weren't in school for the education. Learning stereotypes and SA was a survival skill. The entire experience has left me with a lifetime aversion to all forms of social engineering. Thankfully my parents cared about my future and were willing to beat my ass when I didn't perform to their standards. And a few years in SF taught me the value/necessity of judging every person on their individual merits. Am I prejudiced? You tell me. I still take what I consider to be reasonable precautions based on personal experience that validated the usefulness of stereotypes and I still practice an elevated form of situational awareness when groups or individuals make me nervous. (Can't complain too much - it's saved me untold misery in strange places so there has to be some good in there somewhere.) Bottom line - When parents are given the chance to positively influence their children's environment I am 100% for it. And that means EVERY parent who wants better for their children - without regard to race, creed, etc, etc! The rest of them can rot in their own self-made hell. Yes - that's my soapbox, and I'm sticking to it. Peregrino

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 03-27-2005, 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Peregrino, you have my vote.

Mine also.

Moving kids every couple of years was hard enough on them but having to put up with the limited educational choices was even tougher. I am very proud of them as they all applied themselves, got scholarships to college and have gone on to bigger and better things but it was a whole lot tougher than it needed to be.

Jack Moroney

QRQ 30 · 03-27-2005, 06:49

I can't blame this on anything other than my employment. My three children never attended the same school for two years in succession.. Besides the problems of constantly moving ang getting accustomed to nerw friends, North Carolina had no state-wide standards as they do in other states. Everytime we moved the children were either behind or ahead of their class. In spite of the handicaps all turned out well. No college graduates among them but there are as many unemployed college grads as others. One is the market manager of a major Super Market, one us a partner in my catering business and my daughter is an insurance adjuster.

On another thread Doc said $200K isn't much. I draw $41K disability per year which is more than any of my kids net.

Manstein · 03-27-2005, 23:37

Being a victim of public education myself (HS graduate 2002), I was going to try and contribute to this post as best I could. However, Peregrino conveyed every belief I hold currently so well, that there isnt much left for me to say. I will say though, that his aversion to "social engineering" has spread even more amongst White families during my time in public school.

I come from a township that is 95-98% caucasian, mainly middle to upper class SES, predominantly Protestant. The attributes above are what many minorities despise, for whatever reasons. The school board decided it would "culturally enrich" our school by admitting minorities from various "half-way houses" around the city of Pittsburgh. The results were quite sobering. Fights broken out more often, theft from student's lockers, and the display of gang colors (in blatant violation of our dress code policy, but it was overlooked as to not 'offend' the minority students). Once I graduated highschool, and went off to college, I was hoping I could leave that chapter in my life behind. Unfortunately, college not only meets the social engineering of public highschools, it exceeds it on many levels. I go to a private Christian college too!

I don't see any reason to fear a return to "segregation", as long as it isn't legislated by the government(which is highly unlikely given the events 40 years ago). It is completely natural for race's to segregate themselves. I dont expect blacks in a ghetto to integrate one of their barbecue's with whites and hispanics, just as they shouldnt expect me to have a racially diversified one either.

lksteve · 03-28-2005, 20:31

as one with a fundamentalist southern upbringing, i equate backsliding to drinking whisky, betting on horses and consorting with lewd women...or at least two of the three...on Sunday, of course...

the only way i see a potential for the problem you are concerned with is if choice of schools is limited by race...if it's limited by potential, i think choice of schools is defensible...