Acog's and CQB

BadMuther · 03-19-2005, 13:22

I picked up a TA-31F awhile back for a smoking $500. Took it out last weekend and fell in love with it. Seems like a great all purpose sight, except.....

I practiced clearing my house with it on and definitely do not like the sight for CQB. The 4x magnification screws me up. Guess the "Bindon Aiming Concept" doesn't work as fast as it needs to on my eyes. Much prefer a Reflex/aimpoint/eotech for cqb stuff.

Xdeth on Snet recommended turning the ACOG into an OEG for CQB by covering the front lens. Not a bad idea. I've seen the mini holosights on top of acogs, but that doesn't look like my cup of tea.

I'm thinking about heading to the box (site security and limited convoy stuff) and was contemplating bringing this along. I have no idea how much close range stuff contractors do and whether or not I'd be better off with an eo tech. Just looking at my options sight wise. IMHO, for anything other then CQB Ranges this site is the shiznit.

I'm looking for input from people that have used the ACOG at CQB distances and what your experience was.

Air.177 · 03-19-2005, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMuther

I picked up a TA-31F awhile back for a smoking $500. Took it out last weekend and fell in love with it. Seems like a great all purpose sight, except.....

I practiced clearing my house with it on and definitely do not like the sight for CQB. The 4x magnification screws me up. Guess the "Bindon Aiming Concept" doesn't work as fast as it needs to on my eyes. Much prefer a Reflex/aimpoint/eotech for cqb stuff.

Xdeth on Snet recommended turning the ACOG into an OEG for CQB by covering the front lens. Not a bad idea. I've seen the mini holosights on top of acogs, but that doesn't look like my cup of tea.

I'm thinking about heading to the box (site security and limited convoy stuff) and was contemplating bringing this along. I have no idea how much close range stuff contractors do and whether or not I'd be better off with an eo tech. Just looking at my options sight wise. IMHO, for anything other then CQB Ranges this site is the shiznit.

I'm looking for input from people that have used the ACOG at CQB distances and what your experience was.

One of the "Game Gun" concepts that could apply here is to mount a set of pistol sights at approximately 1 o'clock on your handguard (works best on a freefloat tube) and turn the rifle counterclockwise to use the irons. I have used this system on several rifles mostly equiped with PRI or JP float tubes, but I plan to mount something similar on my rifle with the Briley Carbon fiber tube I recently acquired. That is one option anyway.

BadMuther · 03-19-2005, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air.177

One of the "Game Gun" concepts that could apply here is to mount a set of pistol sights at approximately 1 o'clock on your handguard (works best on a freefloat tube) and turn the rifle counterclockwise to use the irons. I have used this system on several rifles mostly equiped with PRI or JP float tubes, but I plan to mount something similar on my rifle with the Briley Carbon fiber tube I recently acquired. That is one option anyway.

Thanks a friend did mention that to me.

**The Reaper** · 03-19-2005, 14:00

That scope does not lend itself to shooting well covered. That is a trick to use on the Reflex and non-magnifed optics.

For the TA-31, you should mount it out as far from the eye as eye relief will allow, maybe one notch further, practice tracking targets with both eyes open and not looking directly at the target through the optic. When you see the dot over the target, stop and focus on looking through the tube at the target and reticle. Basically, you get the reticle floating like a dot sight while scanning, and you "zoom in on it" when you stop and look at the target through the reticle. Works great for me.

Most people pick up on it with an hour or two practice. Some take longer, some never can.

If the optic does not work for you, and it is in good shape, PM me what you want for it in cash or trade.

Good luck.

TR

Doc · 03-19-2005, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMuther

I'm looking for input from people that have used the ACOG at CQB distances and what your experience was.

Personally I've never seen an ACOG system used in room clearing.

The beauty of the rail system is to place the sight system you need on the weapon at the ORP. Could you change it if you have the time and the need?

Sure.

I love the little black gun. I'm buying one of the civilian models as soon as my gunsmith gets it in.

JMO.

Good luck and be careful over there.

Doc

**Roguish Lawyer** · 03-19-2005, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

If the optic does not work for you, and it is in good shape, PM me what you want for it in cash or trade.

Me too. I need one.

Archangel · 03-19-2005, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

The beauty of the rail system is to place the sight system you need on the weapon at the ORP. Could you change it if you have the time and the need?

Agreed. I recommend investing in A.R.M.S. mounts so your sights will all return to zero when you switch them back & forth.

BadMuther · 03-19-2005, 19:27

Thanks for the input fellas. I'll move it fwd TR and practice what you said (If I'm underdstanding you correctly, if not I'll ask for clarification.)

It's a great sight and I by no means want to get rid of it!

NousDefions794 · 03-20-2005, 12:52

BM,

September 2004 I was fortunate enough to help test some possible additions to the SOPMOD kit for the M4. One of the items I fell in love with was a JPoint sight attached to an ACOG. It is a small red dot sight placed on top of the ACOG. It worked great for CQB and it is very small. I used it for flat range drills, moving and shooting and finally CQB runs in the house. My only gripe was that the JPoint sight is above the ACOG. Instead of a cheek to stock, I had to force myself to get a chin to stock. BUT because of this I had great peripheral view.

http://www.jprifles.com/Jpoint.shtml

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 03-20-2005, 13:40

Looks real interesting! I'd be more interested in its application to a Glock pistol, like my G 20. but it gets sort of pricy, when one adds up the sight, mount and G'smithing.

bberkley · 03-20-2005, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip_Wire

Looks real interesting! I'd be more interested in its application to a Glock pistol, like my G 20. but it gets sort of pricy, when one adds up the sight, mount and G'smithing.

Trip_Wire, are you referrring to the Jpoint on a Glock? You don't need a gunsmith. They make dovetail mounts just for the Glock for the Jpoint (Optima 2000).

I might even have one laying around in my bin of unused parts. I know I have a weaver-type mount for one.

BadMuther · 03-21-2005, 12:18

ND794,

Thanks for the input, I've seen those before. I was just concerned (like you) about the additional height on top of the gun.

TR, I attempted to practice what you said but I was having some troubles.

I find when I use the ACOG I need to close my non-shooting eye to use the sight effectively. Otherwise it's like attempting to drive while looking through a pair of binos-that's about the best way to describe it.

**The Reaper** · 03-21-2005, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMuther

ND794,

Thanks for the input, I've seen those before. I was just concerned (like you) about the additional height on top of the gun.

TR, I attempted to practice what you said but I was having some troubles.

I find when I use the ACOG I need to close my non-shooting eye to use the sight effectively. Otherwise it's like attempting to drive while looking through a pair of binos-that's about the best way to describe it.

You may be one of the very few who cannot get their eyes and brain to work properly with the ACOG.

Make sure that you have the optic up and scan without looking directly through the scope. Keep both eyes open and focus long. You will be aware of the dot (chevron) floating in your field of view. When your eyes pick up the target, you will be able to see the reticle peripherally and stop on the target, you would break the trigger then on a close engagement. Anything beyond CQB range, once you aligh roughly on the target as described above, your dominant eye then looks through the optic to focus on the target, and it will look like you just "zoomed-in" on it. Once your reticle is aligned, you can engage.

Works for me, every time, and is very fast.

TR

BadMuther · 03-21-2005, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

You may be one of the very few who cannot get their eyes and brain to work properly with the ACOG.

Make sure that you have the optic up and scan without looking directly through the scope. Keep both eyes open and focus long. You will be aware of the dot (chevron) floating in your field of view. When your eyes pick up the target, you will be able to see the reticle peripherally and stop on the target, you would break the trigger then on a close engagement. Anything beyond CQB range, once you aligh roughly on the target as described above, your dominant eye then looks through the optic to focus on the target, and it will look like you just "zoomed-in" on it. Once your reticle is aligned, you can engage.

Works for me, every time, and is very fast.

TR

I think I might be one of the ones it doesn't work on.

When I have both eyes open I get a distorted magnified view. The ACOG seems to work best for me when I use it with my non-shooting eye closed.

Thanks for the help Sir.

TR, when you look through an ACOG are you saying that the view is normal until you focus on the target??

Smokin Joe · 03-21-2005, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMuther

I think I might be one of the ones it doesn't work on.

When I have both eyes open I get a distorted magnified view. The ACOG seems to work best for me when I use it with my non-shooting eye closed.

Thanks for the help Sir.

TR, when you look through an ACOG are you saying that the view is normal until you focus on the target??

Send it to me, I'll make sure your sight isn't jacked up.

Or I'll trade you my TAO1NSN for yours