Sobering Thought for the Day.

QRQ 30 · 02-28-2005, 10:03

The first news I heard this a.m. was of over 100 killed in a bombing in Iraq. I was wondering if it will ever stop and what it will take.

Then I heard of bombings in Isreal. These have been going on for fifty years. Even when opposing factions and goverments agree to stop, the extremists continue. IMO it may never stop, Anything we can do to keep the terrorism out of our own homeland is worth it to me.

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

The first news I heard this a.m. was of over 100 killed in a bombing in Iraq. I was wondering if it will ever stop and what it will take.

it only underlines the deep divisions that have long prevailed in Iraqi society...during the Ba'athist era, Sunnis held sway over a Shi'a majority...and i suspect, given the target (a clinic in a Shi'a area), there are Sunnis trying to hold on...i suspect they (the Sunnis) are worried about payback...

Guy · 02-28-2005, 11:37

If you think for a second..."Payback ain't a bitch", then I'm a billionaire in disguise!

25+ years of oppression by the Saddam regime will not be forgotten in a few years. The culture itself believes in retribution.

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

25+ years of oppression by the Saddam regime will not be forgotten in a few years. The culture itself believes in retribution.

there will be hell to pay, for sure...if the liberal press and those who oppose the war could equate Saddam's regime to South African apartheid...naw, that'd require intelligent thought...

Guy · 02-28-2005, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

there will be hell to pay, for sure...if the liberal press and those who oppose the war could equate Saddam's regime to South African apartheid...naw, that'd require intelligent thought...

I read that somewhere and was astounded by the comparison.

T-Totally different culture. The thing that has me thinking...are the Kurds!

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

T-Totally different culture. The thing that has me thinking...are the Kurds!

which is an equally sticky wicket...a major concern is that the Kurds will attempt to unite with Kurds in SE Turkey, Syria, Iran and elsewhere...

the road ahead in Iraq is neither safe nor sure...by assuring majority rule in Iraq, there are several other balls now in play...

Guy · 02-28-2005, 12:52

10-4!

What's even more amazing, is that the current Gov't in which we backed (in Iraq) came in third place after the elections.

The Kurds came in second.

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

The Kurds came in second.

not uncommon for a minority to show solidarity in times like these...the Sunnis and Kurds will appear more united for a time, although the majority population is Shi'a...in a parlimentary system, though, i don't see Kurds and Sunnis uniting to displace the Shi'a majority...i believe the goverment will be formed from the larger Shi'a factions....

Guy · 02-28-2005, 13:18

Sunni's had a very low turnout at voting time.

The chances of the Kurds and Sunni's joining in "solidarity" are slim to none! They (the Kurds) won't forget Chemical Ali anytime soon.

I believe the Kurds and Shia's will form some sort of alliance in order to "hopefully" stabilize the country. They both have a hatred for the Sunni's that will not go away soon.

This is why you see a rise in the "insurgency" movement.

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

I believe the Kurds and Shia's will form some sort of alliance in order to "hopefully" stabilize the country. They both have a hatred for the Sunni's that will not go away soon.

This is why you see a rise in the "insurgency" movement.

i don't see the Kurds and Shi'a forming anything more than a temporary alliance, if that...and the insurgency...? once a Shi'a based government gets their feet on the ground (which is what the 'insurgents' hope to delay or prevent) things are likely to get real rough in the Sunni triangle...payback is a medevac...

Guy · 02-28-2005, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

i don't see the Kurds and Shi'a forming anything more than a temporary alliance, if that...and the insurgency...? once a Shi'a based government gets their feet on the ground (which is what the 'insurgents' hope to delay or prevent) things are likely to get real rough in the Sunni triangle...payback is a medevac...

Shia's to the south...Kurds to the north, looks like somebody is getting ready to get "squashed"!

In order to survive (Sunni's), they have to move outside of their AO and strike back.

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

Shia's to the south...Kurds to the north, looks like somebody is getting ready to get "squashed"!

In order to survive (Sunni's), they have to move outside of their AO and strike back.

step back and take a look regionally...Ba'athists, Shi'as and Sunnis (with a sprinkling of Kurds) in Syria...Sunnis and Kurds in Turkey...Shi'as in Iran, Sunnis on the Arabian Peninsula...Pakistan with both Sunnis and Shi's, A'stan with Sunnis, Shi'as, (not to mention ethnic divisions)...throw in Israel, Lebanon, Somalia, and the former Soviet republics bordering the region and the question becomes, anybody got a match?

Guy · 02-28-2005, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

and the question becomes, anybody got a match?

DO you see that match being "lit" in the Kurdish held AO in Iraq?

lksteve · 02-28-2005, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

DO you see that match being "lit" in the Kurdish held AO in Iraq?

hard to tell...the entire area seems to be a series of flash points...relations between the Turks and their Kurdish minority are very crucial to stability in the region, IMNSHO...i haven't followed that situation much since retirement, but i do recall being somewhat aghast during the early days of IF when it was rumored that the Turks had taken up positions in N. Iraq or had mobilized along the border, i don't recollect...

since Mohammed died, about the only time the Muslims were not fighting each other for hegemony was during the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent European colonial period....there are divisions within the Shi'a community, as well, among the Fivers, Seveners and Twelvers (depending on which martyred caliph you believe to be the true successor to Mohammed)

Guy · 02-28-2005, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

hard to tell...the entire area seems to be a series of flash points...relations between the Turks and their Kurdish minority are very crucial to stability in the region, IMNSHO...i haven't followed that situation much since retirement, but i do recall being somewhat aghast during the early days of IF when it was rumored that the Turks had taken up positions in N. Iraq or had mobilized along the border, i don't recollect...

since Mohammed died, about the only time the Muslims were not fighting each other for hegemony was during the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent European colonial period....there are divisions within the Shi'a community, as well, among the Fivers, Seveners and Twelvers (depending on which martyred caliph you believe to be the true successor to Mohammed)

Instead of forging a "future" you conjured up a history that is inciting to that type of culture.

"Very few move forward...dragging the baggage of the past."

Then you have those so-called leaders that...

"I will move forward, so I will put that past baggage on your shoulders, so that I WILL move forward without extra weight too carry."

The AO the Kurds control is pretty much stable. The division in which you are hearing about in the Shi'a community is perpetuated by the media.