Navy's Personnel Boss Says Getting Rid of Photos in Promotion Boards Hurt Diversity

**Pete** · 08-06-2021, 03:48

Navy's Personnel Boss Says Getting Rid of Photos in Promotion Boards Hurt Diversity

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...diversity.html

A lot can be read between the lines in this article. Are they looking for the best - or a magic number? If you are a minority - are you the best or a magic number?

"According to the chief of naval personnel, removing photos from promotion boards has hurt the Navy's diversity goal.

"I think we should consider reinstating photos in selection boards," Vice Adm. John Nowell Jr. said Tuesday at a panel discussion on diversity at the annual Sea Air Space conference at a convention center outside of Washington, D.C., on Tuesday......."

Badger52 · 08-06-2021, 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

A lot can be read between the lines in this article. Are they looking for the best - or a magic number? If you are a minority - are you the best or a magic number?

Whether it's reduced credit requirements for a degree like the UC system in the 70's or overt selection on appearance, going back quite awhile I've always felt these efforts foster a person laying their head down at night pondering, "Am I the token?"

In the case of arriving at being commissioned, at what point does an organization say we're done raising you, it's meritocracy time?

Scimitar · 08-06-2021, 05:27

Yet another example of diversity blown way out of proportion.

Here's another...

Earlier this year, a major US best-practice publication in our industry felt the need to jump on the diversity band wagon,
Even though the topic of diversity has absolutely nothing to do with their subject mater.
(Imagine Good Housekeeping publishing an article on the pros and cons of the Sig Sauer P320?!)

This industry publication released an article criticizing the fact that only 3% of CEO's in our industry were black, where as 13% of the US population is black.
They called the boards of these companies racist, and challenged them to "step up" and hire more black folk into CEO positions.
I should mention that all these companies are large corporations, we're not talking about the local lunch bar here.

Do you really want to be filling the CEO position of a multi national with a quota?
Surely you want the absolute best person possible in the role, skin colour be damned?
Especially considering that every extra inch of experience and ability in a CEO can make a huge difference in the success of a company.

As always there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, so we look at the numbers and funnily enough 35 years ago only 3% of black folk in the US graduated with an under graduate degree in our industry.
About the same time that all the current company CEO's where graduating.
The low percentage of black CEO's in our industry was not due to racist Boards, but instead was caused by poor access to education 35 years ago.
In 1985 3% of our industry's freshmen where black, and lo and behold today 3% of our CEO's are black.

We contacted the publisher to point this out.
Unspurpsingly their reply was, that black folk have it hard in the US and we should give them a leg up.

When we pointed out that poor white folk have it hard in the US today as well, and suggested, considering the data, that they should retract their article accusing these Boards of racism, they refused and promptly cut off communication.

Post Modernism, and Neo Marxism grow just a little bit stronger each day...

S

**Box** · 08-06-2021, 07:58

All the article is really saying is that the Navy has recently realized that "equality" isn't all that equal after all...

A meritocracy that eliminates any chance that the possibility that your skin color, body composition, or facial features will be used to help you get promoted is unsatisfactory.
The Navy is simply saying that blind meritocracy doesn't promote sufficient numbers of special interest group Sailors.

Nothing to see here - move along.

...I'm also positive that the top executives from that major US best-practice publication in your industry are currently stepping down amidst corporate restructuring to lead the way - or maybe they are just hypocrites that want their competitors to restructure and step down

either way, nothing to see here, move along

bblhead672 · 08-06-2021, 09:23

What a mess...it's not just the Navy. SecDef Austin's Mar 4 memo shows that all of the services are racing toward the bottom under his "leadership."

exsquid · 08-07-2021, 17:53

Reminds me of the first DA photo I had taken at Bragg. The individual ahead of me in the queue was an overweight O4 Chaplain. After the photographer had tucked, taped, lint rolled, and posed him (all in the matter of a few minutes, she was impressive & efficient) he complained that how she photographed him made him look fat. As he was leaving she said under her breath but loud enough for me to hear, "no, the fact that you are fat makes you look fat."

Fact of the matter is that USN E7/E8/E9 boards (at least when I was in) have the same female/minority requirements that USA E8/E9 boards do where the first non-selected female/minority gets a second look to prove that they didn't get overlooked due to being a female/minority. It is like the black CMSAF complaining that the USAF is inherently racist.

x/S

tom kelly · 08-08-2021, 13:13

Your enemies are the first to notice your mistakes and weak points....The people who advocate these failed practices are the enemy...Winning isn't everything it's the only thing communism wants. World Domination Now. The Biden- Harris administration and their appointed lackeys are controlled by the New World Order Communist Party. ... Who do you think is winning this struggle between Capitalism and Communism.

mark46th · 08-09-2021, 09:24

You can have equality by merit or you can have diversity.

**Box** · 08-09-2021, 10:21

I agree with the premise - but there is no such thing as equality in merit.

That is the raw beauty of "merit" - it allows for someone to be "better"
-A 15 year old boy that can do the 100 meter dash in 10.20 is faster than the fastest woman of all time that took 10.49 to run the same 100 meters.

That is why nefarious leaders and leaders with evil intent are so upset by 'merit'
Merit is the opposite of equal.

Diversity allows all colors to run the same race and it has nothing to do with "merit".
Merit loves diversity. Diversity seeks out merit. Diversity is how Jesse Owens ended up in the Olympics. Merit is what he used to redefine "equality" to that guy from germany that was causing all the trouble. Merit is what Jesse Owens used to rub that guys nose in his predetermined view of equality and superiority.

Merit doesn't care about the competitor's race, religion, gender, or favorite soccer team.
Merit is the essence of pitting the individual against "the clock"
The clock doesn't care what color you are.
The clock doesn't care about your gender.
The clock doesn't care who you love.
The clock just keeps ticking away.

Activists can change rules and redefine the the words, but they can never change reality - 10 seconds will ALWAYS be 10 seconds and 100 meters will ALWAYS be a hundred meters.
Merit is only concerned with who gets there first - merit doesn't care about equality - equality is a ridiculous human concept designed to help weak minded people feel better about themselves.

cbtengr · 08-09-2021, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box

I agree with the premise - but there is no such thing as equality in merit.

That is the raw beauty of "merit" - it allows for someone to be "better"
-A 15 year old boy that can do the 100 meter dash in 10.20 is faster than the fastest woman of all time that took 10.49 to run the same 100 meters.

That is why nefarious leaders and leaders with evil intent are so upset by 'merit'
Merit is the opposite of equal.

Diversity allows all colors to run the same race and it has nothing to do with "merit".
Merit loves diversity. Diversity seeks out merit. Diversity is how Jesse Owens ended up in the Olympics. Merit is what he used to redefine "equality" to that guy from germany that was causing all the trouble. Merit is what Jesse Owens used to rub that guys nose in his predetermined view of equality and superiority.

Merit doesn't care about the competitor's race, religion, gender, or favorite soccer team.
Merit is the essence of pitting the individual against "the clock"
The clock doesn't care what color you are.
The clock doesn't care about your gender.
The clock doesn't care who you love.
The clock just keeps ticking away.

Activists can change rules and redefine the the words, but they can never change reality - 10 seconds will ALWAYS be 10 seconds and 100 meters will ALWAYS be a hundred meters.
Merit is only concerned with who gets there first - merit doesn't care about equality - equality is a ridiculous human concept designed to help weak minded people feel better about themselves.

Absolutely brilliant summation!

Scimitar · 08-09-2021, 22:20

I think, like most things, this it's nuanced. And this comes down to the nuance of equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome.

Equality of outcomes looks very much like equality of opportunity to the politically blind (read socialism). And politics is just about as nuanced as carpet bombing a city.

For example
You could argue that poor / disadvantaged folk get less opportunity to develop their merit, and that it's to our overall advantage as a country to reasonably invest in giving people with merit opportunity.
i.e. kid from a low socio economic family, has the merit to get into Harvard, but can't afford it, it's too our advantage to assist his merit, and help with fees.

But you twist this reasonable principal 1 degree, and 60 miles later your off by a mile!
We should do more! they say. Instead of assisting merit, we should just assist everyone equally.
Heaven forbid someone be better at something than someone else.

S

frostfire · 08-11-2021, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box

Diversity allows all colors to run the same race and it has nothing to do with "merit".
Merit loves diversity. Diversity seeks out merit. Diversity is how Jesse Owens ended up in the Olympics. Merit is what he used to redefine "equality" to that guy from germany that was causing all the trouble. Merit is what Jesse Owens used to rub that guys nose in his predetermined view of equality and superiority.

Stolen!

Unlike my previous lead slinging career, I actually see the importance ( and strength) of diversity in my current one and the above explanation might just be a shared view between opposing parties

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scimitar

Heaven forbid someone be better at something than someone else.

S

The Harvard discrimination lawsuit where the result pretty much gave permission to legal discrimination was hard for me to process. I left a country that legalized such discrimination to the land of opportunity only to see the same discrimination enacted.