Domestic COIN

[Roguish Lawyer]

It’s been needed for decades. Discuss and remember you are being watched.

[Old Dog New Trick]

We are a country controlled and manifested by constitutional law. Nowhere in US Code would it be allowed, in fact Posse Comitatus Act specifically forbids it.

Now, could a group of patriots go in to areas of disruption and undermine the popular culture? Well, yes but they would have no legal authority or cover of law. They would be just as guilty if not more so than the insurgents protected by the media and political leaders.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

We are a country controlled and manifested by constitutional law. Nowhere in US Code would it be allowed, in fact Posse Comitatus Act specifically forbids it.

Now, could a group of patriots go in to areas of disruption and undermine the popular culture? Well, yes but they would have no legal authority or cover of law. They would be just as guilty if not more so than the insurgents protected by the media and political leaders.

Totally agree. But what happens when an insurgency goes totally unchecked? Do we need legislative change? Can the FBI handle it? Why or why not?

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Totally agree. But what happens when an insurgency goes totally unchecked? Do we need legislative change? Can the FBI handle it? Why or why not?

1) We end up having (subversive) groups like BLM, Antifa and other well funded underground forces.
2) Yes, we need to change the law so that it gives local and federal law enforcement and law makers the tools to properly protect lives and property from unlawful behavior and assembly.
3) No! The FBI is not the best tool in the DHS toolbox.
4) Needs more discussion of why/why not.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Totally agree. But what happens when an insurgency goes totally unchecked? Do we need legislative change? Can the FBI handle it? Why or why not?

So the ballot box is still the only mean average joes can legally counter subversive groups?

[Uman]

https://www.hsaj.org/articles/3555

https://measured.design/c3-counter-criminal-continuum/

To much SWAT like in USASOC, more Special Warfare.

Our enemies know our inability to handle an IW fight what better than to help one along that is internal to the US.

How about those automatic sears for AR-15 smuggled from a Chinese address that was busted by CBP. 10,000 sets.

Not to mention their trolls. doing their MISO on social media.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Totally agree. But what happens when an insurgency goes totally unchecked? Do we need legislative change? Can the FBI handle it? Why or why not?

There is this: "...or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment is a Federal Document and there doesn't seem to be a chain-of-command clause.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I like that ^^^ (Uman’s Post) but then again duh! Modifying a tool to work for a different purpose is one thing but having a tool specifically designed for the task would be better.

Task and Purpose - Need to identify what those are and develop a strategy that can be quickly deployed based on local conditions and supporting factors. Each being somewhat different, and a moving target.

I’d like to see more use of NG as a defensive and protective posture so that local uniformed police can go mobile to protect and preserve property and life. If it’s necessary than armed police should be tasked with protecting firefighters to limit property damage. But, before that the police should be making arrests of those conducting property damage and larceny. Or, worse, assault and battery!

If federal assets are available then have both UC and uniformed to blend in with and conduct both infiltration and intelligence collection and make arrests of “conspiracy to commit violence crimes” even working their way up the chain of command to funding sources and C2.

Always lots of speculation but little facts about who pulls the strings and who funds it. As I’ve said elsewhere, there are lots of collegiate level sponsors of the terrorism being directed to dismantle our country. They should be perp walked right out of their university classroom during the middle of a lecture and the financial supporters should be “Stoned or Madoff’d” at 05:00 by an FBI HRT team with CNN tipped off.

Since none of that ever happens and hasn’t ever happened then we should just expect 17 year old kids to be incarcerated for doing what the grown ups should have been doing.

ETA: I think we really know how to do this, it’s just a matter of ruffling the political feathers and allowing the anvil to fall where it lands. Counter espionage is something practiced by every local gang task force and federal authority since before the Russians posed a threat.

And with that...good night. The red pill or the blue pill?

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Uman

https://www.hsaj.org/articles/3555

https://measured.design/c3-counter-criminal-continuum/

To much SWAT like in USASOC, more Special Warfare.

Our enemies know our inability to handle an IW fight what better than to help one along that is internal to the US.

How about those automatic sears for AR-15 smuggled from a Chinese address that was busted by CBP. 10,000 sets.

Not to mention their trolls. doing their MISO on social media.

Exactly!

Rather than COIN (Do we really know what that means in this case?), I think many of us FOGs have experience with "winning the hearts and minds" of indig in violence oppressed environs. We can go into urban areas to create opportunity zones, build a "counter-culture" and deny the enemy their "human capital".

Just a thought, YMMV

[(1VB)compforce]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

Exactly!

Rather than COIN (Do we really know what that means in this case?), I think many of us FOGs have experience with "winning the hearts and minds" of indig in violence oppressed environs. We can go into urban areas to create opportunity zones, build a "counter-culture" and deny the enemy their "human capital".

Just a thought, YMMV

You mean something like this?

If Cutone's choice of words sounds familiar to Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, that shouldn't be a surprise. "C3" means Counter Criminal Continuum and it's basically the application of the Army Special Forces' counterinsurgency tactics used in the Global War on Terror to violent crime and gang activity in American cities.

https://www.military.com/veteran-job...g-problem.html

[mark46th]

Everything is in place to put the bad guys out of business. The only thing missing is leadership with the will and courage to implement it.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by (1VB)compforce

You mean something like this?

BINGO!!

[Uman]

We need VSO here in our potential No-Go zones. it is more counter gang/counter narcotics and in civilian cloths vs tooled up SWAT.

Irregular Warfare = War By Wisdom

[tom kelly]

Originally Posted by mark46th

Everything is in place to put the bad guys out of business. The only thing missing is leadership with the will and courage to implement it.

The bad guys are the leaders of the liberal cities that are & have been in control of the Democrat Party, The ENTIRE Democrat Party is corrupt from Joe Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, on down to the local democrat party workers in the liberal progressive cities. Why does a 17 year kid have to take on the "Peaceful Protestors" and when he defends his life from the mob, is charged with murder...There is no murder in a WAR. The winner of the WAR decides what the rules and laws of war are. The progressive democrat District Attorney's funded by George Soros pick & choose what rules & laws are applied in their failing progressive cities...

[lindy]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

If federal assets are available then have both UC and uniformed to blend in with and conduct both infiltration and intelligence collection and make arrests of “conspiracy to commit violence crimes” even working their way up the chain of command to funding sources and C2.

I am completely shocked at the apparent level of support within the specific orgs of the "peaceful protests" and BLM. Anarchists in Portland seem to be using GMRS (according to videos) radios yet ARNG air assets cannot be used to support.

That seems very odd...or intentional?