Litigation Career

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 12:12

This was split off the SEALs lawsuit thread to keep it pristine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo1-3

I think that any law related to that kind of thing would be pre-1984 (like 1940's era for the basis), but it might be an interesting couple of hours. I've got a student subscription that goes live on January 3rd. I'm sure it's limited as to how broad it is, but $30 for 1 year of unlimited use can't be a bad thing

But I'm sure NDD would appreciate a few paragraphs of Lawyer-Speak in his thread

I am confused. If you are in law school, you are going to get a free subscription because they want you to get addicted to on-line research so you will waste your clients' money on unnecessary on-line research once you start practicing. Who is charging you $30?

Law-student-speak is much better than lawyer-speak, trust me on that one.

Bravo1-3 · 12-31-2004, 12:45

RL,I haven't started school yet. I'm interning as a Paralegal and have to take a Legal Research class at WSU... they get the money. It's been very enlightening for me so far: I have learned that I should stay away from litigation, and that opposing counsel doesn't like it when they hear you in the hallway referring to them as "That 'Penny Saver' Ad Lawyer".

I get 1 hour per week for school research on Wests and Lexis at the office, and I have to pay for anything over that myself... this will definitely make my life easier.

Didn't mean to jack this thread

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo1-3

I have learned that I should stay away from litigation

Why?

Bravo1-3 · 12-31-2004, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Why?

Several Reasons:

1. Both clients are lying, or at least not telling the whole truth.

2. Pre-Trial between parties is an almost continuous stream of e-mail/phone/mail tag. The only time you get to catch up is at depositions when you're talking to the other sides Paralegal while the Attorneys are taking a leak. "Did you get this?" "I'm still waiting on your answer for XXXXXXX" etc... It's a lot like swimming upstream in either a riverbed that is dry one minute, raging the next, and dry again.

3. I have an ingrained hostility for people who look right in my eyes and either are evasive or openly dishonest. I maintain my composure on the outside, but inside I am fighting to keep myself from doing some impromptu unlicensed oral surgery on the skell in question. The partner that I generally work for has informed me that my poker face is almost perfect, but I clench my teeth or bite the inside of my lip when I'm doing it.

4. You can have everything right, your client could actually have suffered legitimate, real harm due to the other sides deliberate negligence, and you can have a jury (composed of people who were too dumb stupid to get out of Jury Duty) still not find for you.

Same thing applies in Criminal cases, but I'll never work in that field.

5. In a lot of cases, it IS about who has the most money. Fortunately, it hasn't happened to me yet, but I've seen other firms withdraw from cases where a plaintiff (no call on legitimacy) simply couldn't pay to move any farther forward, and the potential outcome was insufficient to continue representing them. I understand the reasoning behind it, and I don't blame them since they're not exactly "Legal Aid" firms, but it does rub me the wrong way.

6. "Sue first, ask questions later" Penny-Saver Ad law firms that generate their own cases then find plaintiffs to represent. We're representing a landlord right now in a case in which 3 of the 5 plaintiffs admitted at deposition that they had no idea that they were "harmed" until the opposing counsel told them they were (yes, there's going to be a complaint filed with the Bar Association on that. I'm going to enjoy helping draft it).

7. It's depressing, subjective and hostile (not just adversarial)

Most of these issues invole my failure to set up a complete "Ethical/Moral Wall", but I'm something of an old dog, and I see it that as a new trick.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 14:12

You are working principally on personal injury cases?

Bravo1-3 · 12-31-2004, 15:04

With the parents firm it's PI and Family Law. With the sons firm (same building, other side of the building, it's Bankruptcy, Workers Comp, and the occassional curve ball "favor for a friend" that has nothing to do with any of those listed above, usually something having to do with Real Estate, requests for modification of orders or vacation of judgements and collections... I hate collections, but I'm actually pretty good at it, must be that barely concealed hostility thing

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo1-3

With the parents firm it's PI and Family Law. With the sons firm (same building, other side of the building, it's Bankruptcy, Workers Comp, and the occassional curve ball "favor for a friend" that has nothing to do with any of those listed above, usually something having to do with Real Estate, requests for modification of orders or vacation of judgements and collections... I hate collections, but I'm actually pretty good at it, must be that barely concealed hostility thing

I would be careful about jumping to conclusions based upon your limited experience to date. The world is a big place.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo1-3

Didn't mean to jack this thread

It's OK, I fixed it.

vsvo · 12-31-2004, 15:50

Yeah, we get free Lexis/Nexis and Westlaw, but the school restricted access the first semester b/c they wanted us to learn how to find stuff in the books. So we had to play the whole missing/hidden books game in the library.

I'm leaning away from litigation too, but that's just b/c I don't express myself well orally. I can get my point across much better as a writer, with the ability to edit.

But you're right RL, I'm just a 1st semester-under-his-belt night school guy with a lot to learn.

First week of school during orientation the Dean runs a session. We go over an appellate case of a woman convicted of heroin distribution. Well, the Dean was counsel handling her appeal, so of course the question was would you defend a convicted drug dealer. The learning for me was that you can knock the system all you want, until it's your ass in the sling and you need a lawyer. Everyone has to go by their own moral compass, but as long as it's within ethical bounds I believe in the system we have.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 12-31-2004, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsvo

I'm just a 1st semester-under-his-belt night school guy with a lot to learn.

That's OK. NDD would like your thoughts in the Gitmo thread, please.

vsvo · 12-31-2004, 21:22

OK, I'm gonna look up some stuff on Mon. and read some of these gov't memos first. Man, I'm gonna need a big chew to get through those.

Is this a setup? Reminds me of a saying we have, roughly translated as, "walking into the mouth of the tiger....."

12-31-2004, 21:38

Of the 4 lawyers who returned home late that night when I had scheduled Christmas Tree decorating festivities, the one with the best answer, "Where are the bulbs?" was a litigator.

Somehow I've become surrounded by lawyers. My bestist buddy Bryce, my bf, my roommate, their friends who come over to play poker.

Perhaps this is why I value firearms skills more

.

(In a moment of seriousness, I started appreciating things legal in business school when we looked at societies where contracts can't be enforced and there is no basis on which to conduct business and everyone's quality of life suffers as a result.)

FrontSight

**Airbornelawyer** · 01-03-2005, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsvo

I'm leaning away from litigation too, but that's just b/c I don't express myself well orally. I can get my point across much better as a writer, with the ability to edit.

But you're right RL, I'm just a 1st semester-under-his-belt night school guy with a lot to learn.

You think we ain't gots ta talk real good an' purty-like?

BTW, junior associates in the litigation departments of big firms tend to spend a lot of time on document review and legal research. They work their way up to drafting motions and the like, and eventually get to depositions. Arguing before a jury is a long way off.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-03-2005, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

BTW, junior associates in the litigation departments of big firms tend to spend a lot of time on document review and legal research. They work their way up to drafting motions and the like, and eventually get to depositions. Arguing before a jury is a long way off.

This is generally true, but there are exceptions. Luck has a lot to do with it.

BTW, do corporate associates ever have to review any documents?

LOL

**Airbornelawyer** · 01-03-2005, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

This is generally true, but there are exceptions. Luck has a lot to do with it.

BTW, do corporate associates ever have to review any documents?

LOL

Transactional lawyers don't do document review, we do "due diligence."

The point is, when law students compare and contrast litigators and transactional lawyers, they generally characterize the fields as vsvo did, i.e., in terms of speaking versus writing skills. But the reality often is that there is more to compare than to contrast. Junior lawyers - both transactional and litigation - generally do a lot of legal research and document review, and eventually work up to basic document preparation. Developing your "people skills" - especially the ability to present yourself orally - matter for both types.

If you choose transactional law because you prefer research and writing to speaking and arguing, and fail to develop the latter, you will find your career prospects endangered by your 3rd or 4th year, as the powers that be start to more seriously evaluate how you will deal with and develop clients, and whether you have the skills to negotiate deals.