NYC Grand Jury Returns No Indictment in Police Choke Hold Case

BMT (RIP) · 12-03-2014, 14:26

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/no-i...t_nbr=vekepobk

BMT

PSM · 12-03-2014, 16:07

The crime:

Quote:

chokehold death of an unarmed black man who had been stopped on suspicion of selling loose, untaxed cigarettes,

I guess NYC cops are now "revenuers".

Pat

craigepo · 12-03-2014, 18:56

I have run quite a few grand juries. Almost all of the people I have had on grand juries have been very good, and have been very conscientious in their work. All of them have been very engaged in the process. To say they take the work seriously is an understatement.

The standard to obtain a grand jury indictment is just "probable cause". Numerically, think of it as 50.1%. If the evidence doesn't make it to probable cause to a grand jury, there is no way the case would pass muster in front of a trial jury, with a burden of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The Founding Fathers were quite wise by giving us a right to juries, both with grand juries and trial juries. What people need to understand (i.e. former law professor Barack Hussein Obama and United States Attorney General Eric Holder) is that juries are our standard of judgment. If a jury of our peer says it, that's the law of the case.

rubberneck · 12-03-2014, 18:56

The use of lethal force to effect an arrest for a petty crime is absurd and apparently this officer has a history.

**The Reaper** · 12-03-2014, 19:40

In the video, I did not see lethal force applied, but I did see apparent non-compliance from the subject.

TR

rubberneck · 12-03-2014, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Depends. What kind of resistance did the suspect use.

Caroited restraint is not considered lethal force depending on the department.

It's banned by the NYPD. IMHO modern law enforcement suffers from a complete lack of common sense. Is it really necessary to arrest a man for selling individual cigarettes?

**Box** · 12-03-2014, 21:15

...I never realized that selling loosey's was a crime of such magnitude.

Lighthouse · 12-03-2014, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubberneck

It's banned by the NYPD. IMHO modern law enforcement suffers from a complete lack of common sense. Is it really necessary to arrest a man for selling individual cigarettes?

There was no damage to his trachea per the autopsy.

http://youtu.be/Nql1xRtWKOU Gracie breakdown

DIYPatriot · 12-03-2014, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

There was no damage to his trachea per the autopsy.

http://youtu.be/Nql1xRtWKOU Gracie breakdown

A properly employed carotid choke shouldn't cause any significant damage to the trachea. The intent is to restrict blood flow, not oxygen.

DIYPatriot · 12-04-2014, 00:19

Spot on! I should've put "carotid choke" in quotations as it is being tossed around worse than a Kardashian at a Ray J party. I should've tightened that up a little better so it reads differently. I overlooked the entire audience of this site and did not mean to confuse anyone.

My intention was to explain that the use of a carotid control technique is not to affect the respiratory system, rather it is to interrupt the vascular one in order to subdue a subject. Arm bar chokes, OTOH, do a good bit of damage to the trachea. I'm not a big fan of them. Besides, they're not a lot of fun to train if you're the recipient.

Getting back on track, Ryron and Rener Gracie released their analysis of this exact situation on YouTube. I don't run in their immediate circle, but respect their instruction. I train with Royce and Rodrigo and they are the only ones who have ever promoted me in jiu jitsu. My instructor certifications are in Krav Maga and Kali.

Scimitar · 12-04-2014, 02:07

The current issue aside,

The broken window technique of policing that likely drove such an overkill in a situation, achieved great outcomes in New York, Circa Mid 90's, and has in turn become very popular throughout the US police forces. But the argument is, that this aggressive policing strategy is almost impossible to execute, without a significant increase in minor abuse against the non-criminal public.

In the long run this drives down the public trust in police, as the noncriminal public's negative interactions with the police increases significantly, and over all may cause greater problems than it solves.

This is all driven by the election to election, fiscal quarter to fiscal quarter, mentality in the west, that can destroy, as Covey puts it the P/PC balance of our nations.

Compare
Broken Window Strategy
Critical Analysis
Vs
Peels 9 Laws of policing

S

sinjefe · 12-04-2014, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

So here is the thing about a grand jury. It is made up of citizens picke from the community, not police review boards etc.

Yeah, but they only see the evidence that the prosecutor wants them to see. They may not be presented opposing facts (to that which the prosecutor wants)

Thus the saying: A good prosecutor can "indict a ham sandwich".

Scimitar · 12-04-2014, 08:37

Relevant: I think Team Sergeant will like this one.

Difference between 'police being militant' and 'military doing policing'.

S

mugwump · 12-04-2014, 10:16

I'd like to see us debating the nuances of choke holds thrown on the bankers who laundered Zeta and Sinaloa cartel money, circumvented Iranian economic sanctions, colluded to manipulate interest rates, and secretly funneled arms-smuggling cash and conflict diamonds from Africa to London (banks paid fines under consent decrees for all of these acts, not one single individual paid a personal price).

The guy was selling loosies to support his family. Where have common sense and proportional response gone to?

craigepo · 12-04-2014, 20:33

No indictment, but could well be a civil suit. I would bet it's already in the works.