BlackEnergy: Russia has Trojaned America

mugwump · 11-06-2014, 20:13

Pretty sobering stuff. US financial, pipeline, industrial, refining, and nuclear facilities are compromised. BlackEnergy Trojan

Streck-Fu · 11-06-2014, 20:20

So....DHS is telling the media that DHS could not secure the Homeland?

JJ_BPK · 11-07-2014, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

So....DHS is telling the media that DHS could not secure the Homeland?

AKA: FEED ME,, MONEY....

mugwump · 11-07-2014, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

So....DHS is telling the media that DHS could not secure the Homeland?

Ha. That was my first thought. Billions for security theater at airports while the entire country is infiltrated.

MtnGoat · 11-07-2014, 06:38

JJ_BPK you are right about the money tree. If it wasn't for ISIL, CYBER would or will be the next money tree.

The one thing that gets me, over two years ago DOE did a "Test" on our Energy Infrastructure. They hacked into a power plant and destroyed a plants engine. Full video over this. Seemed to be a lot like the cyberattack named Stuxnet. SO if we knew back then the vulnerabilities, why didn't we fix them then? I understand that the word on the street that China and Russian implanted these YEARS ago and we just now found them. WTF!!

JimP · 11-07-2014, 08:48

anything SCADA related has been compromised for years. This is NOT news.

Richard · 11-07-2014, 09:03

If it has been released, you can bet the 'Cyber Knights' have been on it and e-effin' with whomever did it...but nothing like sowing the seeds of angst to make sure your agency's budget stays in the black out there in the pork-fed sty of bureaucratic money troughs.

Richard

**Box** · 11-07-2014, 09:30

...hm
the government is going to need to control the internet to keep this from happening again !!

Badger52 · 11-07-2014, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

...hm
the government is going to need to control the internet to keep this from happening again !!

Well, this should help then.

There will be payback for us "accidentally" taking down Syria's core internet capability awhile back (with the desired effect that it got blamed on Israel).

blacksmoke · 11-09-2014, 09:37

Can somebody explain why these control systems have to be online? I understand remote controls, but isn't there some other possible way for a company or the government to monitor things from afar?

Badger52 · 11-09-2014, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmoke

Can somebody explain why these control systems have to be online? I understand remote controls, but isn't there some other possible way for a company or the government to monitor things from afar?

The long journey toward this state is based much on the presumption of labor cost reduction. It's achieved (the cost reduction) basically because no one wants to taste the other side of the blade - the investment necessary to proactively secure & monitor the systems. Whether it's a lock & dam, or just that the utility company can now have 1 person driving around to scan & read your meter (rather than fence-jumpers doing a visual), the backwash comes later as systems aren't maintained, exploits are developed, etc.

"Geez, I just saved a bunch of blue-collar labor hours. Why would I want to hire a really kick-ass IT security group & flush that money away?"

Philosophically, no different than cutting the force ("billions saved") and then, later, lamenting "Gee I wish I had some really savvy self-sufficient guys to go help that group throw that tyrant out of their country."

TINSTAAFL

Ape Man · 11-09-2014, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmoke

Can somebody explain why these control systems have to be online? I understand remote controls, but isn't there some other possible way for a company or the government to monitor things from afar?

There is no other cost effective way to monitor things remotely. And companies would much rather have their engineers home and able to remotely log in when necessary than pay them to stay and monitor things. This is becoming the new norm whether you are talking about power companies or the power plants at big companies like Lockheed Martin. Only backward places run by paranoid ex-navy guys are bucking the trend (Where I work for example...).

Does this create risk? Yes. But to my mind, it is obscuring a bigger risk and that is the huge cut in maintenance and qualified people that is happening all over the industry. Terrorism sounds scary and gets all press but we are heading rapidly to a third world state were we start losing power just because important things break and no one fixes them.

I could tell you story after story that I have heard from people in the industry, but the bottom line is that you are more likely to lose your power because nobody was maintaining (and nobody knew how to maintain said equipment) the switch gear to building that controls the grid (true story) then because some terrorist manged to hack that equipment.

Bottom line: One of the first things I did after I bought a house was get a whole house propane generator and a big (300 gallon) propane tank.

**The Reaper** · 11-09-2014, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Man

Bottom line: One of the first things I did after I bought a house was get a whole house propane generator and a big (300 gallon) propane tank.

Big?

I know a guy who bought a 100K generator and has 5,000 gallons of propane in his back yard.

Wish I could afford that, but I would cry when the bill came in after running it for a couple of weeks. Could be close to $10,000 to refuel.

TR

Ape Man · 11-09-2014, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Big?

I know a guy who bought a 100K generator and has 5,000 gallons of propane in his back yard.

Wish I could afford that, but I would cry when the bill came in after running it for a couple of weeks. Could be close to $10,000 to refuel.

TR

100k!??? What the heck was he powering, a small fortress? My generator is only 14k and I only really need 6K at peak load.

But yes, I should have said "big by the standards of my neighborhood" where most everybody except those who heat exclusively with propane only have 100 gallon tanks. I would have much rather had a 500 gallon tank, but funds did not allow for it.

The way I figure it, a 300 gallon tank will allow me to keep food cold for about two weeks even when only half full (won't bore you will all the fuel consumption and run time calculations I did, but I can only make it two weeks on half a tank if I don't allow it to run constantly). If the power is out for more than two weeks, I have a lot bigger problems then power and will have to move to no power life style just to avoid being targeted as the only man with power if nothing else.

On a side note, people who think they might have to run the generator for an extended period of time had better stock up on enough oil and a spare oil filter or two.

**The Reaper** · 11-09-2014, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Man

100k!??? What the heck was he powering, a small fortress? My generator is only 14k and I only really need 6K at peak load.

But yes, I should have said "big by the standards of my neighborhood" where most everybody except those who heat exclusively with propane only have 100 gallon tanks. I would have much rather had a 500 gallon tank, but funds did not allow for it.

The way I figure it, a 300 gallon tank will allow me to keep food cold for about two weeks even when only half full (won't bore you will all the fuel consumption and run time calculations I did, but I can only make it two weeks on half a tank if I don't allow it to run constantly). If the power is out for more than two weeks, I have a lot bigger problems then power and will have to move to no power life style just to avoid being targeted as the only man with power if nothing else.

On a side note, people who think they might have to run the generator for an extended period of time had better stock up on enough oil and a spare oil filter or two.

He told the generator sales guy he didn't want to have to turn anything off, including his pool deck heater and guest house AC. Incredible.

They tried to give me a 250 gallon tank, but I was able to get the gas company to install a 500 gallon tank for $80 per year rental if I did not use at least a certain amount of gas. Otherwise, it was free. We recently transferred to a new company that waives the rental if I buy at least $300 of gas. I always wait till July or August to refill when LP prices are lowest. If there was a large storm inbound, and I was under 50% or so, I might fill up then. Now I wish I had bought a 1,000 gallon tank and buried it.

Be aware that you cannot use more than 60 or 70% or a rated tank's capacity. They will only give you an 80% fill, and you can't use the last 10-20% to run the generator. That means around 150 usable gallons, if you start with a full tank.

I agree on the generator run cycle. Start it in the morning and run for an hour, then an hour or two in the evening to cook meals, cool freezers and fridges, and charge batteries. A couple of golf cart batteries and a few 12v. lights and fans and a small inverter come in very handy. You can get most of the power back in an hour or two of recharging.

I concur on the spare oil and filters, as well as an extra set of plugs. Sad thing is that the controller board is probably the most likely component to fail, but they are $700 each or so.

TR