Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > The Bear Pit > PT/ H2H

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2004, 08:36   #1
Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Understanding Fear's Effect On Unit Effectiveness

Understanding Fear's Effect on Unit Effectiveness
Gregory A. Daddis
Military Review
July-August 2004

Last edited by Martin; 11-02-2007 at 05:13.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2004, 08:38   #2
Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Please see above link instead.

Last edited by Martin; 11-02-2007 at 05:14.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2004, 08:40   #3
Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Please see above link instead.

Last edited by Martin; 11-02-2007 at 05:14.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2004, 13:10   #4
Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
This reminded me of a quote, originally said by a Vietnam era soldier addressing a group of soldiers at basic in the '80s. (I read it in a book)

Quote:
The fear that you are carrying has got a name. We call it birdchest. Yes, I suppose you feel tough and proud and believe you can complete if not great acts then at least... acts. But we know... that deepest inside you are all a little birdchest. Small frightened heartbeats. To fight and to kill is to be a birdchest. To do fearsome raids under time pressure is to be a birdchest. To maintain a human feeling for human life after the butchering and the killing on the battlefield is to be a birdchest. You better acknowledge the fact that during the most part of your duty you will be afraid. The day you no longer feel the fear it's time to change job, cause then you will automatically become a danger for yourself and your surrounding envoirment. Think about it, gentlemen. Understand that war is fear, nothing else than clean and pure fear.
Martin

Last edited by Martin; 12-12-2004 at 13:10. Reason: Formatting
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004, 13:12   #5
alphamale
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Most interesting part of that article to me was the extent to which being alone vs with others was emphasized as a primary driver of fear in the soldier.


[fighting alone]

"A soldier, pinned to the ground by hostile fire, with no form of activity to divert his thought from the whistling flails of lead that lash the ground about him, soon develops an overwhelming sense of inferiority. He feels alone and deserted. He feels unable to protect himself."


vs


[fighting with others; cool quote]

One Union soldier advancing on Fort Donelson, Tennessee, in 1862 gained courage from General C.F. Smith, who rode calmly among a hail of Confederate minie balls: "I was scared to death, but I saw the old man's white mustache over his shoulder, and went on."




Academic articles like this always seem to find a away at least once to restate the obvious as a "finding". Here is this ones. Hope he didn't put too much research into discovering this..


"Israeli military psychologist Ben Shalit thought that men could train to overcome fear by handling frightening and unusual situations. While such preparation might not have guaranteed fearlessness in battle, it did develop a "trust in one's ability to handle difficult situations."

Martin, thanks for the post.

FrontSight
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004, 13:18   #6
Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontSight
Martin, thanks for the post.

FrontSight
You're welcome.

Martin
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004, 13:51   #7
Razor
Quiet Professional
 
Razor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontSight
[fighting with others; cool quote]

One Union soldier advancing on Fort Donelson, Tennessee, in 1862 gained courage from General C.F. Smith, who rode calmly among a hail of Confederate minie balls: "I was scared to death, but I saw the old man's white mustache over his shoulder, and went on."
This is why the motto of the infantry is "Follow Me".
Razor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 20:20   #8
Kyobanim
Moderator
 
Kyobanim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,045
This thread deserves a bump. This information translates nicely to the civilian world. Good stuff, Martin.
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"


Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
Kyobanim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 13:48   #9
A Soldier
Asset
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 7
Translation into Civillian

How do the skills mentioned in the article translate well to the civillian world??


I don't know of too many civilian position that face fear on a daily basis.

Could you please elaborate.
A Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 14:32   #10
Pete
Quiet Professional
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
Follow Me..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
This is why the motto of the infantry is "Follow Me".
You forgot the rest of it

Follow me, I'm right behind the engineers
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 15:49   #11
Solid
Guerrilla Chief
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
FS,
It is necessary in science to prove even the most commonsensical things because they then can be used as solid building blocks for more advanced thought. Also, this can often lead to discovering a flaw in common sense. For example, it was for a very long time common sense that the world was flat, or that the sun orbited the earth, or that there was nothing in the place of the U.S....

Solid
Solid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 16:31   #12
Pete
Quiet Professional
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
Fear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Soldier
How do the skills mentioned in the article translate well to the civillian world??


I don't know of too many civilian position that face fear on a daily basis.

Could you please elaborate.

All of the Para-military forces, police, emergency services/first responders, fire fighters, security guards, gate guards at a high school football game, ticket takers at a concert.

A private citizen who comes on an overturned car in a creek, a biker who's friend slide over the edge of a cliff while biking.

When an emergency happens you need to solve the problem not run around in circles with your hands to your cheeks screaming.

As an everyday civilian you do not generally walk through life saying I will face
fear today. Fear generally jumps right out from around the corner straight into your face. And fear comes in many forms.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 16:37   #13
aricbcool
Guerrilla Chief
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
You forgot the rest of it

Follow me, I'm right behind the engineers


Reminds me of Starship Troopers...

Unofficial Engineer motto:"First we dig 'em, then we die in 'em."

Classic book.

--Aric
__________________
DPRK should be next...
aricbcool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 22:17   #14
Tubbs
Guerrilla
 
Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Big Country
Posts: 253
Another good resource on this subject is the book "On Killing" by David Grossman (my apologies I don't remember if he is a retired Col. or LtCol. and I lent out my copy of the book).
__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.-George Orwell
Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 22:34   #15
lksteve
Quiet Professional
 
lksteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Soldier
How do the skills mentioned in the article translate well to the civillian world??
mastery of fundamentals...name a field of endeavor...those that master the fundamentals, whether it involves personal risk or not, a good grounding in the fundamentals allows someone to persevere in the face of stress, whether it is working in the dust and noise of a construction site or dealing with a hundred ringing telephones...

every day, i send survey crews out to work on four and six lane highways and roads, with traffic moving at 65 miles an hour around them...they need to keep their SA on a keen edge, they need to have mastery over fundamentals, they need mastery of the equipment and software they use to be effective and safe...the more a crew is experienced in the environment, the more work they can accomplish...this is not to say that they are sent out without instruction or guidance...

the unknown is a daunting situation for many folks, even without the presence of physical danger...i have been in a position, the last three years, of training survey crews for engineering companies, that for lack of a better explanation, lack the SA and understanding needed to keep surveyors employed...thus, there is a tremendous amount of turnover within these companies...novice crew and party chiefs are very apprehensive about working outside their comfort zone, and while normally they are cockier than a brand new buck sergeant/second lieutenant, they seem to be clingy when faced with a new challenge...call it leadership, call it management, call it what you will, but at times like this, the boss needs to step forward and take an active role in the actual work (rather than direct, budget, allocate, etc) until such time as the crew gains enough skill and experience to go foward without having their hands held...it's true in surveying, probably true in roofing, crab fishing and working on an oil rig...

i could go on, but the truth be known, a soldier has more skills to succeed in the civilian world than they know and certainly are more capable than their prospective civilian employer is aware of...as mentioned in the article, success breeds success and soldiers, well trained soldiers, anyway, become used to overcoming, adapting and perservering...IMNSHO...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
lksteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:46.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies