Societal Collapse Scenario 1

[Lighthouse]

TS gave me the "nod" for this post.

This scenario came from the card game "Conflicted." The goal is to explore how far people will go to survive while keeping morality and humanity, while trying to survive

An Expected Visitor

You have your food storage in place, six months worth of food and water. One of your friends comes knocking saying that his home has been ransacked, he and his family of four have nothing but the clothes on their backs and they need a place to stay.

Your friend has very few useful skills and taking them in would cut down your supply timeline in half. At this time there is no way you can replenish your supplies without risking your own life in one way or another. Would you open your home and your supplies to your friend and his family or wouldn't you? Why?

[Lighthouse]

No good deed goes unpunished I guess. Turning him away might make him a threat to me and my family eventually so it may be best to just make him an ally. He would to earn his keep however. Learn some skills and be on point during supply runs.

Also he wouldn't get half my goods neither would he know how much I have. I would give bring out two months worth of food and split that so he has one month of food for himself and his family. At the same time I've got some extra eyes and bodies to reinforce what I've got in place.

[Barbarian]

I enjoy exercises like these, but there are a lot of unanswered questions that come along with your scenario.

Examples:
How much time has passed since the collapse?
Are there any communities nearby that pulled together to form a polity?
Regional demographics?

Not trying to bash your scenario, but one needs SA to make good decisions. Even the question you posed above could be affected greatly by these three, which came off the top of my head, just now. Details are important.

[The Reaper]

I think you are making a big mistake giving him a quantity of food and letting him go.

When you do that, he can go home and say screw you, or lose the food again. He already lost his supply. Or said he did. What if he is just trying to plus up his own stocks?

Agree that you might be able to use his help. It is going to be very difficult providing security and doing the work that would need to be done with just you and your family, unless you have a half-dozen teen-aged males still at home.

If you want to cut your own family food supply in half by giving it to friends, that is your call.

The only way I would do that would be if he had serious skills (which he doesn't appear to), if we had a pre-arranged sharing agreement (which wasn't mentioned), or if he and his family moved in with me and worked for the group to earn his meals one day at the time.

When someone says, "I'm coming to your house if XYZ happens, my standard response is, "What are you bringing?"

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[BryanK]

This resembles earlier scenarios previously discussed here in different threads, but I'll bite.

First of all, unless you live in the desert, no one needs a 6 month food allotment neatly packed away in the basement/garage. Water, yes; Ammo, yes; Food, no. A simple formula to remember is: Training+practice= Food. Learn to trap, hunt, fish, field dress, cook/smoke, conceal, and store harvests properly. Develop a small indoor or outdoor greenhouse for fresh veggies. My reasoning behind not storing so much food is because food that keeps for that long isn't good for you in the long run (especially MRE's). What will you do when stored goods run out? Danger will still be everywhere.

Second, I say let the poor bastard in. Teach him, and his family, what you know about survival/marksmanship/field craft. They will soon become a great asset, and even improve your friendship (barring any infidelity issues).

Lastly, in this sort of scenario, you'll have to risk your life damn near every day to survive, so that point is kind off moot when it comes to supplies. A lot of people don't know the first thing about survival. They're hungry and without their cable TV, so emotion will get the better of them. Therefore, their mental acuity and ability to survive has decreased. That will make it easier to spot and dispatch any would be aggressors in your AO. Take a gander at this thread:

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...ad.php?t=41217

These are my opinions only, YMMV

[Lighthouse]

This game was made by a Prepper and it self admitting that some cards lack details due to space but says to apply them to you and your living situation. For me I live in an apartment complex so I will most likely be Effed in the A if I don't make nice with the neighbors. The scenarios are some things that are possible. My intention was to learn from the best instead while creating a good discussion.

Originally Posted by BryanK

This resembles earlier scenarios previously discussed here in different threads, but I'll bite.

First of all, unless you live in the desert, no one needs a 6 month food allotment neatly packed away in the basement/garage. Water, yes; Ammo, yes; Food, no. A simple formula to remember is: Training+practice= Food. Learn to trap, hunt, fish, field dress, cook/smoke, conceal, and store harvests properly. Develop a small indoor or outdoor greenhouse for fresh veggies. My reasoning behind not storing so much food is because food that keeps for that long isn't good for you in the long run (especially MRE's). What will you do when stored goods run out? Danger will still be everywhere.

Second, I say let the poor bastard in. Teach him, and his family, what you know about survival/marksmanship/field craft. They will soon become a great asset, and even improve your friendship (barring any infidelity issues).

Lastly, in this sort of scenario, you'll have to risk your life damn near every day to survive, so that point is kind off moot when it comes to supplies. A lot of people don't know the first thing about survival. They're hungry and without their cable TV, so emotion will get the better of them. Therefore, their mental acuity and ability to survive has decreased. That will make it easier to spot and dispatch any would be aggressors in your AO. Take a gander at this thread:

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...ad.php?t=41217

These are my opinions only, YMMV

[atticus finch]

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

TS gave me the "nod" for this post.

This scenario came from the card game "Conflicted." The goal is to explore how far people will go to survive while keeping morality and humanity, while trying to survive

An Expected Visitor

You have your food storage in place, six months worth of food and water. One of your friends comes knocking saying that his home has been ransacked, he and his family of four have nothing but the clothes on their backs and they need a place to stay.

Your friend has very few useful skills and taking them in would cut down your supply timeline in half. At this time there is no way you can replenish your supplies without risking your own life in one way or another. Would you open your home and your supplies to your friend and his family or wouldn't you? Why?

My first question, and observation as to the first mistake is:
If this individual has no immediate skills towards self-sufficiency, especially in an emergency situation. Then how and/or why does this individual know you have anything he might need or want?
If he never bothered to learn any skills towards the concept of self-sufficiency, more correctly the personal responsibility of self-preservation. These are the same kind've arrogant fools who never bothered to put away any needed items towards the same goal.
Consequently, the first mistake was letting a fool such as this know by any means you have anything of value in an emergency situation. I've seen their kind many times and soon as they know you are prepared thier mindset is the same "don't have to do anything towards that, I'll just go to so & so's house"
And they are damned dangerous as they are the first ones that'll turn on you out of envy, not jealousy, and that the most dangerous of emotions.
I would send them home and tell them there isn't anything I can do for them at the moment, head on home & wait until I contact them and we'll go from there.
I'd backtrack them to see where they go & what they do, home or elsewhere? If they go home, any evidence in thier neighborhood they're telling the truth? Evidence of violence? Anything of the sort? Neighbors in the area showing any evidence of trauma or anything? Are they looking emotionally upset or anything? Did that individual show or have any evidence of any trauma associated with such an event?
Or worse, did they not go home and you observe them 'talking' to someone else? Who did they talk to and where are they?
If no evidence anywhere they were telling the truth or you observe some other kind've behavior, at least you know the individual was lying, now the question of why? And it's a better starting point for knowing what to do next.

[Flagg]

If my friend came knocking, without question or hesitation I would help.

I take my friendships seriously….and they differ substantially from acquaintances.

Whether I let him and his family stay would depend on the entire family's character and integrity, NOT just my friend's.

As well as their complete acceptance of my dictatorial leadership.

Being offered a bed and/or a meal does not include any voting rights or opinions unless specifically requested.

For me, offering help to a friend(rather than an acquaintance) is easy.

But the much harder part for me is if/how that offer of help may or may not extend to my friend's family.

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

When someone says, "I'm coming to your house if XYZ happens, my standard response is, "What are you bringing?"

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Hence why I moved out of a populated urban area asap. During Sandy people in nyc were bringing firearms to the gas stations just because they had to wait a long time to get gas. I could only imagine how people in an urban area would be if they heard no food or water was coming.

[Pete]

How did he get to my house?

Why is he and his family still alive?

In a collapse of society where folks are ransacking homes his block of homes would be toast. No gas and he would be walking. Somebody would kill him for his shoes and women.

My block may be on the hungry side but nobody's home would have been ransacked.

I think a more interesting question would be "What would the police be doing?"

They are already the most organized force in any community. The "law and order" politicians band with the local police force, gather the families and begin sweeps of better off areas of the city confiscating all food for the "common good". That MRAP, SWAT team plus a few dozen LEOs in riot gear coming up your street looking for that half carton of instant oatmeal? Syphoning gas from your car and lawn mower?

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Pete

I think a more interesting question would be "What would the police be doing?"

During Katrina they seemed to be looting for themselves, not the common good.

Pat

[Paslode]

I am planning on being away from here long before I might have to deal with this, but if I were to get stuck at home in the BURBS..

I am going to guess that people are going to flee from areas adjacent to those that are being 'hit' to areas they perceive as 'safe'. Which if my area is considered 'safe' it will likely have an influx of refugees from other areas who are going to be foraging, especially if FEMA doesn't have a feed lot set up.

The most immediate threat is neighbors and the city councilman down the street with big ambitions. None of which are friends and I would not share food with them. In the short term the keeping a low profile and playing dumb might be the best tactic with these folks.


If it is a collapse and mass chaos none of my friends are likely to travel to my house. If phones are working the most I might get is a call about what is going on, what to do and I would probably get an invite to come over with my stuff.....which again brings up the question of what assets do they have, do I want to share mine, or risk moving and do I want to be around these people for a period of time.

But if one of them and their family show up as you described in the short term, considering refugees and neighbors... it is another set of ears, eyes and a trigger finger, but long term they would have to be a provider as well and in the city that will be an ugly task..

[atticus finch]

Originally Posted by Pete

How did he get to my house?

Why is he and his family still alive?

In a collapse of society where folks are ransacking homes his block of homes would be toast. No gas and he would be walking. Somebody would kill him for his shoes and women.

My block may be on the hungry side but nobody's home would have been ransacked.

I think a more interesting question would be "What would the police be doing?"

They are already the most organized force in any community. The "law and order" politicians band with the local police force, gather the families and begin sweeps of better off areas of the city confiscating all food for the "common good". That MRAP, SWAT team plus a few dozen LEOs in riot gear coming up your street looking for that half carton of instant oatmeal? Syphoning gas from your car and lawn mower?

This was what I had in mind about "who is he talking to, if anyone?" although I wasn't sure how to word it without it sounding paranoid. I wouldn't put it past the so-called 'authorities' to institute a very evil version of "see something, say something".........and offer the incentive of a reward in terms of food or whatever of what is confiscated (stolen) from others.
Those who failed to take some responsibility for themselves rat out others for a cut of the theft, possibly why they're at your door asking for 'help' ?
Now they know for certain or confirmed what you have & go drop a dime on you. Whether they're friends or not, desperate people under these circumstances are one step away from becoming evil people.
I'll help those I know who've made an honest effort to take responsibility for themselves yet still came up short. Circumstances and/or responsibilities nowadays can put a real crimp in an individuals situation, regardless of how hard they try.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Pete

I think a more interesting question would be "What would the police be doing?"

At home looking after their own families, I suspect.

I think the premise presumes society is without rule of law.

Good questions, though.

And you can assume that if you help him, whether it is him, his wife, or his kids talking, word will get out that you have food, and you will have a lot more visitors. Maybe even the ones that cleaned him out.

And what will he do when he is out again? You know he will be back.

In the end, only you can decide how much of your family supply you want to give to others. That would be a pretty bad feeling when you realize that you and your family are running out as well, and you gave a bunch of your supply away.

TR

[Ape Man]

Two thoughts:

If someone is knocking on your door asking for help, it is because they know you have the stuff to help them with. If they know and you trust them not to tell anyone else, they are an asset. Trust is worth more than gold in tough places.

If you don't trust them, you most likely have good reason. In which case everyone already knows you have stuff. Concerns about them telling are moot.

I am struck that some many people can use the word "friend" and "worthless" about the same person. If they are my friend, it is because I trust them. And I don't have many friends.

Bottom line: I would rather have someone with me that I trust who did not have a lot of skills then someone I did not trust who was an excellent fighter and the best mechanic in the entire world.