What the hell happened to my Navy?

[LarryW]

I don’t know how to broach this on this forum, but here goes.

I love my Navy no less than those of you love your own branch of service. Personally I respect completely each and every branch and specialty. Nothing good happens by the effort of just one man/woman. It takes a village.

IMHO, what is reflected in this story (link below) is an embarrassment not only to the Navy I love, but to all service members, regardless of branch, rank, or specialty. Not getting into details, but ships (used to) have a regular training cycle which begins upon returning from deployment. Broadly speaking this cycle involves a period of leave and upkeep, an independent administrative review to assess training readiness, a fleet level materiel inspection & logistics inspection, individual and unit intermediate and advanced training, final Battle Group workups under the force commander, weapons loadout, and deployment again. Not knowing but I suspect a similar regimen applies to all military commands.

Something beyond just those things under the immediate control of the dumbfucks described in this article happened. A failure of "the system" or some thing.

My concern (and there ain’t a damned thing I can do about it but bitch) is that what happened on this ship represents a systemic problem throughout DoD. I have a feeling deep down (and, yeah, I know…maybe it’s just gas) that what this story suggests is that we’re seeing the same thing in our military today that Czar Nicholas saw in his military in 1915. Just way too many Twinkies and not enough raw meat.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/201...bizarre-cruise

[Tree Potato]

As a blue-suiter guest here, I've asked a similar question about my service, and share a concern overall for our sister services. It seems there has been a rash of issues pointing at deteriorating leadership skills and substance of leaders' character in recent years. Coupled with diminishing resources for the military during continued troubling times and the outlook isn't appealing.

A recent example: http://www.jqpublic-blog.com/losing-...uieted-airmen/

However, it may simply be that these issues have always existed to this degree, we're more aware of them due to modern communications, or we're more sensitive the further we grow in our lives and realize how significant these indicators are.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by Tree Potato

As a blue-suiter guest here, I've asked a similar question about my service, and share a concern overall for our sister services. It seems there has been a rash of issues pointing at deteriorating leadership skills and substance of leaders' character in recent years. Coupled with diminishing resources for the military during continued troubling times and the outlook isn't appealing.

A recent example: http://www.jqpublic-blog.com/losing-...uieted-airmen/

However, it may simply be that these issues have always existed to this degree, we're more aware of them due to modern communications, or we're more sensitive the further we grow in our lives and realize how significant these indicators are.

All valid points, but in previous days we had more bench strength, more ships, and a military culture that wouldn’t tolerate poor leadership. An “indiscretion” would be dealt with quick and without regard for being PC. I’m not grieving over the good ol’ days, but I am concerned.

Is this kind of crap a DoD wide problem?

The SOCOM as a community has a leg up, in that candidates are vetted by veterans. Sure, a person can work up an application packet, do the PT, have the paperwork in order, all ship shape and Bristol fashion. But, when that individual gets into training he is being evaluated by veterans he is going to ship with in combat, future Team members and they are especially seasoned at smelling the fly shit in the pepper. A nice portfolio means nothing. If the guy doesn’t have the stuff he gets bottom blown. No great loss.

If this is a service wide DoD problem within the culture of our military, then the SOCOM warriors are going to go into a firefight without any back up except from a collection of PC bimbos and blanketheads. In other words, they won’t have any back up at all.

That's not right.

[The Reaper]

Larry, IMHO, that would seem to be the path our leadership is interested in pursuing, like it or not.

TR

[LarryW]

I was afraid you were going to say that, TR. What they say about prior planning all boils down to leadership.

What this condition (my sweet epiphany) implies (while SF has probably known this for years) makes me conclude that a SOC operation requires multifaceted and very detailed planning for all levels (C2, planning, insertion, extraction, BDA, etc) just to account/allow for the potential for piss-poor leadership in the supporting organizations. (No brain-strain in figuring that out. GEN Sherman said something about amateurs talk about tactics while professionals talk about logistics.) It looks like this failure in our military culture exists due to a corruption in our leadership at the highest levels, and I’ll bet it’s been that way for many years.

Somebody answer me this: What percentage of total operations resources does it take now days to plan and execute a specific mission just because you have to allow for shitty leadership outside the control of the operating force? I’d make a SWAG that it’s probably more than half.

Methinks if the U.S. wanted to save a huge bundle on operating costs they should begin by fixing the way we vet and train our back-up fighters.

Note for the record: USS COWPENS was (is) a damned good ship capable of executing any at-sea mission from AAW, ASW, ASuW, and TLAM (land attack) missions on a global scale and make the bad guys die in their own vomit. But, a ship is only as good as the crew. The ship failed because the leadership had not been properly vetted. As a tax dodger I blame the TYCOM, the CRUDESGRU Commander, and especially the selection system, the military culture, that assigned Captain Bevis and Ms Butthead to COWPENS. Damned lucky the crew made it back to port. JMHO.

[CSB]

Yeah, nothing going on with her.
Just another member of the team.
I notice she's got a bigger rack than he does.
No, really, I mean rack of ribbons.



(Right hand photo: Commander, XO, Chief).

So what should the Chief have done? Called the IG?
Dropped a dime to the fleet?
Because it sounds like a firm talk with the officers
involved wasn't working.

[Streck-Fu]

She has the Crazy Eyes.....

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by CSB

Yeah, nothing going on with her.
Just another member of the team.
I notice she's got a bigger rack than he does.
No, really, I mean rack of ribbons.



(Right hand photo: Commander, XO, Chief).

So what should the Chief have done? Called the IG?
Dropped a dime to the fleet?
Because it sounds like a firm talk with the officers
involved wasn't working.

Yep, you damned right. Drop the dime on the whole shebang. Tell the whole bloody fleet that the ol' man is playing stink-finger with his XO! The CMC is the Command Master Chief (senior E-9 on board). This problem gets in the way of the ability for the crew to fight the ship and survive. If this had been an Army unit, what should/could the CSM do? My guess is not a lot, but would have done something to get this up the chain. Maybe take little Ms Butthead out in the brush and talk to her like a hungry man talks to a rock-ape. Talking with the officers won't cut it. Most of the JO's on board probably just want to survive. But, I damned sure wonder about the Mustang officers on board (CWOs and others who were commissioned from the enlisted community). CMC could have talked with them. Maybe gleaned a consensus, anyway.

What he should have done was send a note (OK, Master Chief, time to grow some balls and write a letter/text/email/NAVMSG...some thing) to his counterpart CMC at the ISIC (Immediate Superior in Command) the numbered Fleet level (probably COMTHIRDFLT) and disclose his concern re: deterioration of good order and discipline in the ship. His counterpart is the senior enlisted assigned to the Fleet commander, and he/she should then take the matter to the COS and at least get this to the eyes of the ADM. My bet, given this integrity and cultural handicap, would have been for naught. Least the CMC wouldn't have lost his job. He'd have papered his ass, (which is a contemporary concept and trend that makes me want to strangle something). But maybe, if the ADM had any balls, would have the COS pay a surprise how-goes-it visit to the ship. That would have stopped the music.

This is an embarrassment to the whole Navy, but it reveals a tendency that could be DoD-wide, affecting our whole fighting force. I sure hope not. We have a damned good group of fighters in our company right now, but their being led by too many stupid sons-a-bitches. Time to clean ship and put some blood in the scuppers. Least, that's my .02 cents.

[Richard]

I suspect the CNO was relieved on some level that it was consenting male and a female adults...

Richard

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

She has the Crazy Eyes.....

Yep.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

As an side, how many ships went out at the same time and did NOT have this type of issue and did an outstanding job? I agree our military leadership in all branches had been going south for several years now, but lets not forget this is not representative of all leaders and the Navy did do something about it.

I am with Richard at least it was male/female relationship. I do not say this in jest because if it were male/male or female/female I wonder if the Navy would have punished as much if at all and we would be hearing how it was an anti gay issue rather than the leadership issue it really was.

This.

I agree that the whole incident was rather sordid, but the fact that it was dealt with severely and publically seems to indicate that leadership still exists and is working in the Navy as a whole.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by scooter

This.

I agree that the whole incident was rather sordid, but the fact that it was dealt with severely and publically seems to indicate that leadership still exists and is working in the Navy as a whole.

I respect your perspective, sir.

What chaps my ass is that there appears to be a culture (at least in the Navy, and I hope no where else in DoD) that make the handling of this appear routine and purely reactive. What can the Navy (or DoD) do to be proactive, is the hope. The problem is in the vetting process that allowed these wackos to have positions of responsibility in a ship of the line. As for the severity of the punishment, IMO the O-6 and his pool-girl should have been kicked out. IMO the COC up to the Fleet level should have been admonished at least from DoD.

Here's my bugga-boo: Regardless of whether I like it or not, women are in the military in increasingly more and more combat sensitive roles, and there's the whole thing about gays, etc, blah, blah, blah. OK, fine. If the lady can do the job then let her by god do it. However, lapses in moral judgment stemming from a weak character which results in dereliction of duty as was exemplified in Cowpens have to be dealt with harshly. The weapon systems these people control demands it. We can't accept anything less. There’s no room in the DoD for any of this crap. JMHO, sir.

[LarryW]

Well, darn it all to heck! Surprise, surprise! The inmates are running the asylum yet again!

Navy removes U.S.S. James E. Williams top officers, NCIS launches investigation

http://www.examiner.com/article/navy...-investigation

September 17, 2014

Just hours ago, all top leaders of the Norfolk-based U.S.S James E. Williams were “reassigned” amid allegations of bad “command climate” aboard the destroyer. Those asked to step aside immediately were the ship’s commanding officer, the command master chief, and the former executive officer.

Commander Curtis B. Calloway was relieved of command yesterday while the guided-missile destroyer was underway. As of this morning, deputy commodore, Capt. Anthony Simmons has assumed command of the surface ship that is currently on an eight-month deployment. The ship and crew departed Virginia, May 30.

One official who spoke off the record, indicated there is a separate investigation being conducted by NCIS into a” liberty incident” that occurred in the Sixth Fleet area of operations. There was no indication that this removal of top brass is connected to the death of Boatswain’s Mate Seaman Yeshabel Villot-Carrasco, 23, of Parma, Ohio. She died June 19, 2014, of non-combat injuries while the Williams was underway in the Red Sea. Her death was a suspected suicide.

According to a Fleet Forces Command press release, Commander Curtis B. Calloway, former Executive Officer Commander Ed Handley, and Command Master Chief Travis Biswell have been transferred to Navy Surface Force Atlantic, “pending the outcome of the investigation.”

The Navy and N.C.I.S. will release findings from this investigation as soon as they are made available to the public. Permanent command assignments are expected at that time. There was no time-table given on the investigation.

Commissioned in 2004, U.S.S. James E. Williams (DDG-95) is an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer named for Petty Officer 1st Class James Eliott Williams, a Medal of Honor recipient. Williams was constructed in Pascagoula, Mississippi by the massive military defense contractor Northrop Grumman.

Same thing happened to the same ship in 2009.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/200...ired-destroyer

It’s a matter of piss-poor PC infested leadership all the way up COC being unable / unwilling to admit there are differences between men and women (or men and men / women and women / dogs and lizards)! This climate indicates there's no moral courage at sea anymore. Just undistilled bullshit!

[exsquid]

Weak ass gas turbine ship crap. We never had shit like that on 1,200 psi steam plants. Calling a split tail "Boats" is makes my heart hurt.

x/S

[Razor]

Stand by to see similar situations arise in your favorite, local infantry BCT and tank battalion.