A third of Iraq, Afghanistan vets have considered suicide

[LarryW]

Mark Twain said: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Assuming the American Bard knew what he was thinking, one really has to sort thru statistical claims with their salt shaker in Condition-I. Some are compelling, however. This is a commentary re: the disease of suicide amongst vets. There are stats that show that a relatively low number of WWII vets had direct combat experience compared to vets from Iraq and Afghanistan. The problem is real. As is reflected in the upcoming documentary "That Which I Love Destroys Me" (TWILDM) our vets really need a normalized process to assess and provide a treatment protocol for not only PTSD but the whole rejoining mindset. I'm not smart enough to know what that should be, but I bet the answer resides somewhere in our veteran population.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Militar...-suicide-video

Some 2,000 combat vets surveyed by the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America reported 'the crisis with suicide' as their number one concern.
By Anna Mulrine, Staff writer July 24, 2014

Nearly half of all veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan know at least one fellow US troop who has attempted suicide, and 40 percent know someone who has died by suicide, warns a survey released Thursday by the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA).

The largest nongovernmental survey of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans found that much has improved in America’s care of its veterans, says Tom Tarantino, IAVA’s policy director. Yet there are plenty of challenges that remain – and notable gaps in data nationwide. For example, “We still don’t know how many veterans are alive in this country,” notes Mr. Tarantino, a former US Army captain.

The IAVA survey offers a window into the priorities of the veterans of America’s most recent wars. The survey exclusively sought out combat veterans, who were required to provide proof of their deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan – or both – in order to take the survey.
Recommended: In Pictures America's veterans back home

The roughly 2,000 veterans who completed the questionnaire reported that their number one concern is “the crisis with suicide.”

More than half of all respondents – 53 percent – say that they have a mental health injury, and nearly one third of all veterans said that they themselves have considered taking their own life since joining the military.

These are strikingly high figures, says Phil Carter, director of the Military, Veterans, and Society Program at the Center for a New American Security, which may indicate that the combat veteran population has greater need than previously believed, or that veterans felt particularly comfortable sharing their views with the IAVA.

Seventy-two percent of respondents report being satisfied with the mental health care they’re receiving through the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). Still, 68 percent reported having some problems scheduling appointments.

“By and large, once they get that care, they are very satisfied with it,” says Jackie Maffucci, IAVA’s research director. “But the challenge is getting that access.”

Often, the key is encouraging veterans to seek help, and in this pursuit, the survey offered some hopeful news, Dr. Maffucci says: More than three quarters of veterans who had a loved one suggest that they seek care for a mental health injury duly sought care as a result.

“That’s a powerful number, and a powerful message, to family members, friends, peers,” Maffucci noted. “It’s okay to suggest it. It helps. And when we encourage our loved ones to seek help, that’s what’s going to make the difference.”

As the war in Afghanistan winds down, and with the end of the Iraq War in 2011, veterans report that their ongoing concern remains whether the nation will continue to focus on care for US troops with the same robustness the US public has shown during a decade of war.

Specifically, veterans “are worried that the public is going to forget about them,” Maffucci says. “We need to have the backs of our veterans like they’ve had our backs for the last decade,” she adds. “This is a matter of life and death.”

[LarryW]

Not sure if this can all be corroborated, but it may provide additional backdrop information re: the affects of PTSD on the returning vet and how they can become involved in the criminal justice system.

http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/doc...r_emerging.pdf

[Box]

...not because of war stress but because of the catastrophic disappointment with national leadership.


I find it very hard to believe those statistics. I would lean towards the claim that the entire article was written with some political agenda that needed a "poor poor veteran" angle to be any good.


Besides, if the VA, police, and failed government policies are going to kill you anyway, why not avoid the hassle and have a little fun with it.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

I find it very hard to believe those statistics. I would lean towards the claim that the entire article was written with some political agenda that needed a "poor poor veteran" angle to be any good.

Your point is valid, sir. Maybe the theme of the article was chosen to get the attention of a market. Seems one can't walk on the beach anymore without getting stuck in the heal with some shitbags hypodermic. Seems there're hidden agendas every place. Nothing is as it appears. Without my hair catching on fire about the subject, I admit to the mission we have as a society: the need to do a helluva lot more to help re-acclimatize our vets. That if this Government and society "forgets about the vet" the cost will be much greater than any cost paid before. Keep the salt shaker in Condition-I ... statistics are everywhere.

[JJ_BPK]

Look at the source of the statics..

Some 2,000 combat vets surveyed by the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America reported 'the crisis with suicide' as their number one concern.
By Anna Mulrine, Staff writer July 24, 2014

Nearly half of all veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan know at least one fellow US troop who has attempted suicide, and 40 percent know someone who has died by suicide, warns a survey released Thursday by the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA).

The largest nongovernmental survey of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans found that much has improved in America’s care of its veterans, says Tom Tarantino, IAVA’s policy director. Yet there are plenty of challenges that remain – and notable gaps in data nationwide. For example, “We still don’t know how many veterans are alive in this country,” notes Mr. Tarantino, a former US Army captain.

The IAVA survey offers a window into the priorities of the veterans of America’s most recent wars. The survey exclusively sought out combat veterans, who were required to provide proof of their deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan – or both – in order to take the survey.

I have no idea who or what the IAVA is. They appear to be good people but they are on a mission..

Additionally, The VA is currently a very easy target for all veteran groups.

I know thousands of VETs, I know some that have chosen to end their lives because of problems, I do not think any VET can say they do are not part of the 40%.

Suicide deaths among VETs is numerically growing but it's not??

ref link: Suicide Data Report 2012, DoVA

Millions have served in the last 25 years, starting with Desert Storm, and the number served is growing, but the percentage of suicides is not.

Compare these two screen shots.

Notice the daily suicide rate changed from 20 per to 22 per and the % went from 25+% to 21+%.

Because thousands more are added each year to those that have served as a percentage of the overall populations, shouldn't the suicide % also rise?

It is a problem. Multiple tours? Smaller Army? Professional Army vs conscript??

I do not have the answers, Wish I did..

[uplink5]

As is frequently typical, whoever pays for the survey will find conclusions favorable to their agenda. They'll just shop around till they get the results they want.
Of course, another aspect of this which burns my ass is, what do they expect? When young combat vets are constantly asked, "are you suicidal"? Is it any wonder that
young troops might consider it. Or anything else which is constantly in their face!

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

...not because of war stress but because of the catastrophic disappointment with national leadership.

I've only served on SASO operations in uniform and capacity building out of uniform as a government contractor. I only had a mere handful of poop your pants scary moments. Nothing viscerally traumatic.

In the past year I've had a chance to contribute to a PTSD research study here as one of many interviewees.

I don't suffer from PTSD and I'm not a mental health care professional.

But I consider myself to be a keenly interested amateur observer of human behavior.

I'd add the word frustration to your post. Frustration was a word I used repeatedly in my interview.

On our end of tour debrief, our det had a 4 on 1 with a psych officer. It was a free fire zone and we unleashed verbal hell in his general direction. It felt good for a bit, but didn't actually provide closure.

I actually spent a bit of time on Thesaurus.com to try to find some words to articulate what I'm thinking without much luck I'm afraid.

I can only describe the feeling as "operational impotence" at times.

While I can't directly relate to those suffering from PTSD, and can only try to support them...I think I can see some "slow burn" effects that could contribute to PTSD, depression, and/or suicide risk factors.

I know very little about PTSD, but I can only hope that in times of fiscal constraint that veterans who need help receive help....and not in the form of a cheap pill, but in the form of more expensive time and support from mental health professionals and robust peer support networks.

And I also hope that those in positions of influence/control suffering the jealousy of knowing the US military is the most respected and trusted institution in the US, do not take advantage of opportunities to intentionally shape perceptions of the US military and it's veterans in a malignant direction.

[PRB]

Simply put, that statistic is utter bullshit.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I don't know why I'm about to say this, I believe that PTSD is both real and imagined by those that have had enough trauma to experience it. The human psychy is a weird thing.

The returning vets are dissatisfied with what they thought they fought for. The whole "American experience" is fucked up at the moment and has been. I feel sorrow for anyone that has returned from the wars in the ME that thought they were fighting for justice and common good. They were not!

What these soldiers came home to, was the results of the current situation. It's screwed up!

I've been retired before all of it and I think about ending my life just because it's not what I thought it should be - now.

Very disappointed in where this country is and is going. That is not a result of the current wars, just an excuse!

I will live, simply because I believe there is "hope" that this is temporary and fuck them anyway...they don't control my life; I do.

[LarryW]

Have to say that all the comments re: statistics are, IMHO, really valid. Soon as I hear someone throwing statistics around I can't wait for it to be over. The devil is in the details, and if there's not a lot of science included in a survey or if the science appears undisciplined, or the conclusions aren't supported by the data then all of the results are on shaky ground. You have a very valid point, PRB. The statistics are (or might well be) bullshit or at least the holes in the math make them look like that, but the problem is real. PTSD is not the same machine for everyone. It's kind of tailored to the individual.

IMHO this comment represents about all any of us can do.

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

I will live, simply because I believe there is "hope" that this is temporary and fuck them anyway...they don't control my life; I do.

Well said, ODNT.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I have PTSD, I was never in combat per say, I've lost close friends to training: even tried to save thier lives while they died in my arms. Combat or training for combat or just life in general real people still die. Being exposed to all kinds of stress and environmental conditions are just the same.

Some of these people claiming to be all messed up are just normal people who went through something in their life that most don't experience.

Don't get me wrong. Some people are messed up and need help...all the help they can get. I support that and will reach out to them when I can. I just don't support all the studies and pills they are using to help people that are just of a weak mind and personality.

Grow some balls and deal with it.

JMHO, YMMV.

[blacksmoke]

After serving my first tour in Iraq and having been close to death at least half a dozen times, and having the fear of death at least a dozen, I felt just fine. Towards the end of my tour finding out my ex had been cheating on me made me crazy for a solid year. I lived through it and now I know not to trust most women..

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the IAVA was a Soros-funded vessel. I'm not saying that they may do some legitimate good for veterans, but I have to question some of what they claim.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the IAVA was a Soros-funded vessel. I'm not saying that they may do some legitimate good for veterans, but I have to question some of what they claim.

Not sure if the link below is anymore honorable than any of the others. Seems every organization is passionately hated by one or more other organizations. Damned hard to get the truth. However, *if* it *is* on the level then the IAVA is the antithesis of any veterans support organization, and I apologize for posting any favorable reference to it..

Thanks for the note, sir.

http://patriotsforamerica.ning.com/f...e-soros-backed

How do you find the *truth* in this age of liars and windbags? Anybody have a clue? (Seriously.)

[Stobey]

What would worry me is that any claim from a veteran of depression, PTSD, sucidal/homicidal thoughts - esp. of recent tours in the ME - would be used to label them as "mentally unstable", and therefore subject them to commitment or other "treatment" that could be used to deny them their Second Amendment rights, or worse, to label them as "likely terrorists".

It's a touchy and tricky thing. I'm wondering if those who might need help or counseling might not better be served by associating with those who have been through what they have been through - even in a group setting - without having to "go official", for the reasons I mentioned above.

For those, like blacksmoke, who have had situations made worse by finding out that those at home whom they loved and trusted had betrayed them, I wish there was something to say that could lessen that particular pain. (That's the sort of thing that happens to a lot of people; but please don't let one bad experience sour the rest of your life, or your attitude towards reaching for happiness. Love is risky. And yes, many of us do give up. I know. All I can say is that there are decent people "out there". Friendship, common values, common likes/dislikes, the ability to talk and be comfortable in each other's company should generally be the first things that are sought in any relationship. "Looks" should be secondary. They fade with age. Discernment comes with experience; and the "experience" is not always pleasant. Don't give up. None of us is perfect. What makes a true and lasting relationship is when you - or your "other" - can accept the good, the bad and the flaky of the other, yet still feel the same respect, affection and affinity for the other. True love is selfless, not selfish. Best friends, cultivated over time, very often make the best mates. JMHO.)