When Should Grandpa Give Up His Guns?

[Surf n Turf]

When Should Grandpa Give Up His Guns?

Lets disarm Grandpa... he probably votes Republican, and would certainly pose a threat if his home was broken into, or his person was threatened.

I have a personal interest in being old and armed, thank you very much

What shite

SnT

When Should Grandpa Give Up His Guns?

any Baby Boomers already dread “the talk” –- suggesting their aging parents surrender car keys –- but now two geriatric experts say another thorny, family question must be asked of some elderly folks.

Is it time to give up your gun?

In a recently published paper, the two physicians offer a five-point checklist meant to help caregivers assess whether firearms remain safe in the hands and homes of older Americans, particularly if the gun owners are exhibiting unclear thinking or depression.

“Just like with some (older) people, it’s not if you should stop driving, but when,” said Dr. Ellen M. Pinholt, a co-author and former chief of geriatric medicine at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. “If we find some dementia present in a patient, it can be about when to lock up the weapon or whether we have the family take it away.

“The ‘5 ‘L’s’ suggest that senior citizens must automatically be considered safety risks if they are firearms owners –- a notion we find rather insulting if not preposterous,” said Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, based in Bellevue, Washington.

About three hours north of New York City, former paramedic and gun owner Warren Johnson, 65, said he would become instantly leery should any medical professional delve into a line of questioning regarding firearms.

“If I go to a doctor’s office and the first thing out of his mouth is: ‘So, do you own a gun?’ the first thing that goes through my mind is: He is being coerced (to ask that) by a government agency, whether that’s Medicare, Medicaid,” Johnson said. “It's none of his business.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...s-guns-n145501

[Pete]

When they can't work the TV remote it's getting real close.

Seriously, that was said with someone in my family with dementia. "Hon, you can't change the channel with the wireless phone."

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

IMHO the family need to make this tough decision with no clear cut rules. It has the potential for a lot of abuse by the government, doctors and insurance companies. Not an easy answer.

If any of you have a family member that is in this situation I hope for the best for everyone. Sometimes life decisions just suck no matter what.

Spot on, sir.

The answer to this and so many questions comes from how involved we are with those we care about, and we really need to be *involved*. We are our brothers keepers. There is no cookie-cutter answer re: firearms possession or driving a car. Freedom is a risky business (thank you very much). It really requires the involvement of those who care and are part of that persons life. If you see the signs then you have to act, but IMHO it's sure not the job of the Government to decide, and its none of my doctors business, either, unless he changes my diaper and tucks me in at night.

[ddoering]

At what point should they not be allowed to vote?

[MR2]

Originally Posted by ddoering

At what point should they not be allowed to vote?

When they register as Democrat.

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

IMHO the family need to make this tough decision with no clear cut rules.

The trouble is that many families aren't capable of making those decisions (driving/having guns). Either they don't recognize the symptoms or they are in denial, and many refuse to make the tough decision, because they don't want to be the bad guy who makes mom or dad mad, by taking away their car or gun.

[sinjefe]

Originally Posted by WCH

The trouble is that many families aren't capable of making those decisions (driving/having guns). Either they don't recognize the symptoms or they are in denial, and many refuse to make the tough decision, because they don't want to be the bad guy who makes mom or dad mad, by taking away their car or gun.

That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have heard in awhile. So, who is the anointed person capable of making that decision? That is the root argument for more government. "They" aren't capable of making that decision, so "we'll" do it for them because "we're" smarter than the rest.

Originally Posted by sinjefe

That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have heard in awhile. So, who is the anointed person capable of making that decision? That is the root argument for more government. "They" aren't capable of making that decision, so "we'll" do it for them because "we're" smarter than the rest.

Arrogant!!! I doubt that you have ever had to deal with a family member with dementia, or seen someone who's family ignores the problem.

[MR2]

Originally Posted by WCH

The trouble is that many families aren't capable of making those decisions (driving/having guns). Either they don't recognize the symptoms or they are in denial, and many refuse to make the tough decision, because they don't want to be the bad guy who makes mom or dad mad, by taking away their car or gun.

Emphasis added. I agree. It's not just guns/cars, it's sometimes/often ladders, stairs, stoves, medications, etc. Not every senior has friends/family, let alone responsible friends/family to watch their back.

sinjefe, back at ya - So, who is the anointed person capable of making that decision?

My answer is a responsible friend/family. In its absence, then society needs to step in.

WCH made a simple statement and yours was a simple question. No need to read into them.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have heard in awhile. ......

Agree with WCH. Having a close family member that gets dementia is the pits.

It's a slow process of stuff like power of attorney, check book, etc, etc.

I think we're just a few months from in home care.

After that it's a one way trip to the rest home.

At least we'll try and see the workers don't vote absentee ballot - straight Democrat - for her.

[sinjefe]

Originally Posted by MR2

Emphasis added. I agree. It's not just guns/cars, it's sometimes/often ladders, stairs, stoves, medications, etc. Not every senior has friends/family, let alone responsible friends/family to watch their back.

sinjefe, back at ya - So, who is the anointed person capable of making that decision?

My answer is a responsible friend/family. In its absence, then society needs to step in.

WCH made a simple statement and yours was a simple question. No need to read into them.

MR2,

The article certainly infers government intrusion into the process. I agree it is the responsibility of family members. But only family members, not government. Once you decide it is okay that government make decisions on things where their involvement you support, there is no reason for them not to be involved in ones you don't.

WCH,

Your statement "many families aren't capable of making that decision" infers that someone other than family can or should. Who, if not Government, are you referring to? I stand by my comment..

[Old Dog New Trick]

I'll just watch Grand Torino a few times..."Get off my lawn!"

Actually, it's a very important question and one that should be left to the individual or his immediate family. Absent that anyone that is medically committed to a late life care facility should establish those rules.

I would think that removing the bang stick (firing pin) from the action would be a first step in letting Grandpa keep his guns without him being a danger to others.

Simple story: years ago I had an Uncle (grandmother's brother) that had died at around 85-90 of old age. My father's brothers (Uncles of about 40 y/o) both went to clear his house, found a .410 shotgun and promptly stuck the barrel against the floor, cocked it and pulled the trigger - BOOM! The moral being that maybe the hazard was not with the old man, but the young and clueless.

I'll never give up my guns, but my son is welcome to make the right decision when the time is right for him to become the owner of them.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

WCH,

Your statement "many families aren't capable of making that decision" infers that someone other than family can or should. Who, if not Government, are you referring to? I stand by my comment..

Have you dealt with a close family member with dementia?

A close family that lives nearby still struggles with the decisions of when "rights" are curtailed. My MIL was diagnosed somewhat early and my wife has been involved since the beginning. My wife can sit down and talk with her and explain why something is going to be done.

The car? I'll tell you if a person with dementia causes an accident it's going to be an interesting conversation with the first LEO that shows up. Then their license will be taken.

But now days people don't want to be troubled - or hurt Grannie's feelings - or be inconvenienced if they do take the license, then they'd have to drive them everywhere.

If there is no close family that cares somebody is going to have to make the call.

[NurseTim]

This is my wheel house. The remote idea is pithy but I know some 50 y/o's that can't operate a remote or cell phone, yet are perfectly capable to make cogent, informed decisions.

WCH, is correct, I've seen it many times in my practice. Driving mostly, but guns in some cases. We've had hospice Pt.s with dementia, DRIVE, they couldn't find their way out of the complex, but they got in their cars a drove. This scares me more that those with guns. The switched on providers send letters to DMV at the first sign of potential problems. As for guns, and this is going to sting, the red flag flies when we have former military as hospice Pt.s. They have the weapons, usually, and the ability to use them, usually on themselves.

Sinjefe, I never want the government to get involved if at all possible. Family, SHOULD make the call, but for reasons already stated, they are sometimes incapable of making that call for fear of alienating their loved one and being cut off from their loved one at the end of their loved one's life. Older folks can be both very venictive and stubborn.

To my way of thinking, if they have a solid diagnosis of mental impairment, they are no longer capable of making a shoot/don't shoot decision. Arthritis, get a trigger job, weakness, get a lighter weapon. But cognition impairment, trigger locks. Are families the solution, sadly, no. I have too many Pt.s that have no family for one reason or another. So sometimes, a government solution, and this makes me sick, is the only solution. If y'all have a better idea, I'd love to hear it. Maybe a "jury" of older NRA, or similar organization, peers could review the cases. But what is to stop an anti from joining whatever organization to get on such a "Jury" to muddy up the waters?

[Golf1echo]

It is Grandpa's choice until they take it away...

This is why you have to have a plan in place! Family or friends, someone has to be there to advocate for you...scary stuff, and it can happen rapidly.

Probably not surprising to folks here that people will go along way in fighting for their independence. They will push people away, tell stories, and believe what they will in order to do so. There have been a good number of threads on elderly citizens that have done very well with firearms and function at high levels.

But

Grandma fell again, Insurance dependent Hospital's social workers attempted to send her to a long term lock down facilityw/ advocate she went to cutting edge rehab facility...These are where the Neuro Psychological examinations occur, ie Dementia As Pete says etc..,etc..,etc... Then Guardian, Conservator, Courts, 24-7 Care givers, Attorneys, etc...Not to mention concentric circles of people who were...well, waiting to prey. ( I had no idea the scope of industry revolving around redistribution of elderly peoples money and property.)
All this can go much smoother and less expensively with a plan in place, any weapons are secure, and the elder person involved is in a safe situation. Tough and enlightening stuff...