MRAPs Needed To Combat Combat Vets?

[Richard]

Hmmm...

Do US police really need mine-resistant TANKS to protect us from our own veterans? Indiana sheriff claims soldiers back from Afghanistan have created a new kind of criminal

As American military forces return from Iraq and Afghanistan, one Indiana police station is benefiting from a mine-resistant vehicles once used to tour the war zone to combat a new breed of criminal with military training.

'When I first started we really didn’t have the violence that we see today,' Sgt. Dan Downing of the Morgan County Sheriff’s Department told Fox 59. 'The weaponry is totally different now that it was in the beginning of my career, plus, you have a lot of people who are coming out of the military that have the ability and knowledge to build IEDs and to defeat law enforcement techniques.'

Roughly $4.3 billion worth of military property has been handed over to local and state agencies since 1990, according to the Law Enforcement Support Office.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz32PYLa1TX

Richard

[miclo18d]

My county has on of these and so far I've only seen it sitting in a maintenance yard.

If things ever go south, I doubt they'd be able to keep it maintained, to even use it. Defeated by budget cuts, but hey, it looks cool right?

Also, my current Sheriff, Chris Nocco, has gone up against Piers Morgan and made him to look like an idiot (which isn't hard to do). So at the moment I'm not worried about how it will be used. The future may change that.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

The headline seemed a bit sensationalized and inaccurate from the article.

I posted this in the militarization thread and the justification for the headline is in the video. The officer specifically states that returning veterans have IED knowledge. LINK

“When I first started we really didn’t have the violence that we see today,” said Sgt. Dan Downing of the Morgan County Sheriff’s Department. “The weaponry is totally different now that it was in the beginning of my career, plus, you have a lot of people who are coming out of the military that have the ability and knowledge to build IEDs and to defeat law enforcement techniques.”

[BryanK]

He should be more worried about foreign entities with agendas rather than worry about less than 1% of the population that chose to defend our American soil. Sure, there will be the occasional wacko, but an MRAP? Also to add, I've been to a lot of classes and briefings throughout my stint in the Army, and I can't recall even one class where we were taught to build IED's. SOF folks, EOD, and Engineers have that knowledge, but your run-of-the-mill conventional support troops do not. Aside from the MRE trick that is

Pentagon warns that US faces IED threat at home

“It is clear the IED is the primary weapon of choice” for terrorist networks and, as a result, “is one of the enduring operational and domestic security challenges for the foreseeable future,” says Lt. Gen. Michael Barbero, director of the Pentagon’s Joint Improvised Explosive Device Organization. “The domestic IED threat from both homegrown extremists and global threat networks is real and presents a significant security challenge for the United States.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Militar...threat-at-home

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by Richard

Hmmm...

Do US police really need mine-resistant TANKS to protect us from our own veterans? Indiana sheriff claims soldiers back from Afghanistan have created a new kind of criminal

As American military forces return from Iraq and Afghanistan, one Indiana police station is benefiting from a mine-resistant vehicles once used to tour the war zone to combat a new breed of criminal with military training.

'When I first started we really didn’t have the violence that we see today,' Sgt. Dan Downing of the Morgan County Sheriff’s Department told Fox 59. 'The weaponry is totally different now that it was in the beginning of my career, plus, you have a lot of people who are coming out of the military that have the ability and knowledge to build IEDs and to defeat law enforcement techniques.'

Roughly $4.3 billion worth of military property has been handed over to local and state agencies since 1990, according to the Law Enforcement Support Office.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz32PYLa1TX

Richard

"No Country for Old Men". In Indiana? Seems a little heavy ( delusional ) on the equipment justification. unless there is something going on up there we don't know about

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

It is not the tool but how they are used.

The problem is when your prized possession is a hammer after a while everything begins to look like a nail. I understand the rationale of securing that sort of equipment for the state police, but not for a small municipality. When IEDs become a regular occurrence I'll reconsider my position. Meanwhile they are unnecessary and IMHO are meant to intimidate the populace.

[Streck-Fu]

One of my biggest issues is that it may be free up front but if they use it at all, it will need regular maintenance and MRAP preventive and corrective maintenance is not cheap.
If they use it enough to train the drivers/operators to competency and then maintain those skills, they will put enough hours on it to require significant work. That will not be cheap.

It will be resigned to parade and promotional use.

[mark46th]

'The officer specifically states that returning veterans have IED knowledge..' Streckfu

I had IED knowledge BEFORE I joined the army...

[blue02hd]

Wait til they have to fill that monster up,, Instant Budget breaker there!

[Team Sergeant]

I remember in the infantry we were trained to assist in shooting down enemy aircraft, even went to the range on FBNC to train on shooting them down. Lots of fun.

Then I joined Special Forces and my combat mindset was forever changed. The emphasis was not on shooting down enemy aircraft but neutralizing the pilots before they got airborne............

And as far as the average federal, state and local LEO goes, I remember the recent situation where "one" California police officer went nuts and went on a killing spree and how law enforcement responded, shooting at anything and anyone that even remotely looks like this guy.

If the Mine Resistant Vehicles (Woobies) give federal, state and local law enforcement a warm and fuzzy so be it. A false sense of security is just that.......

[GratefulCitizen]

I'm sure this vehicle will do great chasing people on ATVs and motorcycles.
How will they deal with vandals running around cutting the hoses on all the diesel pumps?

Sure would look scary sitting there.
...where it's not needed.

[Surf n Turf]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Then I joined Special Forces and my combat mindset was forever changed. The emphasis was not on shooting down enemy aircraft but neutralizing the pilots before they got airborne............

Great words of wisdom from the Team Sergeant
SnT

[JM1347]

Welll said Team Sergeant

[SF_BHT]

I have seen 1 MRAP's at two local county PDs. I have asked our Task Force officers from those departments what was up with them. They are all black, SWAT logos all over them but do they need them? Is the violent crimes so high that they need them?

They all replied that the only time they moves to go to the range. They were free and they suck gas and the PD probaly can not afford to fill them up very often.

Such a great use of taxpayer funds.

[JJ_BPK]

I have two problems with the FREEBIES..

1)They are not free.. I will not argue the merit of mom & pop LEO forces needing such gear, personally, I don't think they do. BUT, I will argue the need to spend 500K on FREE toys. That money came out of your pockets. The last I looked they were giving away over 1000 MRAP's. Ruff tally is 500,000,000 USD. Now we also get to pay for the free maintenance of these monsters. If we HAVE TO waste money, line these FREE toys up along the Canadian & Mexican border, weld the bumpers together, and load they with napalm..

2)These toys are not all that useful:

a)they are taller than most phone lines and bridges in rural areas

b)they run 50K LBS, enough to crush most rural roads that are built to DOT current standards and crush most rural bridges. Put a couple of these puppies in New York City and you will crush the subway system and sink Manhattan. link: http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...ards-of-MRAPs/

c)they are used, here is a 42KUSD cost benefit: : http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/gr...draft_fe681730

d)It is very unfortunately that we have lost 37 LEO's in the line of duty, this year. 17 from gunfire. BUT, Not one would have been save with one of these toys. Unless you issue every road patrol one.

Line of Duty Deaths: 46
Gunfire: 17
Assault: 1
Fire: 1
Gunfire (Accidental): 1
Heart attack: 4

Automobile accident: 11
Motorcycle accident: 2
Struck by vehicle: 2
Vehicle pursuit: 2
Vehicular assault: 5

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/search/year#ixzz32jm2GNO1

e)Finally, There is a lot of discussion about the true effectiveness of MRAP's in combat. This article is an "army" view, but you can extrapolate the discussion to make it more of a civilian view with a little imagination. http://breakingdefense.com/2012/10/t...cles-worth-it/

Don't get me wrong, there is a need for this type of vehicle,, I just don't see it in a civilian environment. AQ does not target MRAP's.(edit: in the USA) They target soft targets.. I consider this FREE program another effort by berry to waste money,, supported by people in DHS-NSA-FBI, who think they can measure their schmeckel by the size of their FREE TOYS..