Non-theism Conduct

[Chili_Wango]

All,

I have a question regarding non-theists and how to conduct oneself in a religious setting. I've come to understand that the military is quite religious; I am an athiest.

Quick background: grew up in a free-thinking Christian family (my mother claimed to be baptist, but the extent of our religious upbringing would be saying a prayer before eating and going to bed; however, that ended for me when I entered high school), and realized religion is not for me. Went to a private liberal-arts college where athiests were the majority and received dual degrees in biology and chemistry. Needless to say, I have had very little contact with religion throughout my life.

I recently had dinner with a friend who is quite devout, and he was throughly upset that I didn't place my hands on my lap and bow my head during prayer. I sat up straight and politely sat in silence until his ritual was complete. Was I in the wrong for not assuming the "praying position"?

CW

P.S. He is my only Christian friend and I have no where else to get opinions on the matter.

[plato]

Originally Posted by Chili_Wango

All,

Was I in the wrong for not assuming the "praying position"?

Yes.

When you're in someones home (or country), it's a poor time to assert your individuality. A good cultural briefing before deployment will include the do/don't for a region. Whether or not it's "just your way" really doesn't matter.

[Chili_Wango]

Originally Posted by plato

Yes.

When you're in someones home (or country), it's a poor time to assert your individuality. A good cultural briefing before deployment will include the do/don't for a region. Whether or not it's "just your way" really doesn't matter.

First, I appreciate your response. However, you bring up an interesting notion: "When you're in someones home (or country), it's a poor time to assert your individuality." We were in my home. I cooked. I had no problem with him saying a prayer.

I also appreciate you bringing this into the large scope of things, but I'm specifically refering to conduct within the United States (or in the military for that matter). Although there may be social norms, in let's say Iran, regarding God, the same does not hold true here.

I take Jefferson's view on the matter: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

I wish to be respectful to my fellow soldiers, I wish to know what they find respectful, and not.

[sinjefe]

I consider myself a Deist. A friend wants to pray over his meal in my house, I don't care, but I'm not praying and if he says anything he'll get told to pound sand.

However, anywhere else, I show respect. What difference does it make to me if they want to hold hands and pray or bow heads? My bowing my head and/or holding hands doesn't mean I'm praying.

[Chili_Wango]

What difference does it make to me if they want to hold hands and pray or bow heads? My bowing my head and/or holding hands doesn't mean I'm praying.[/QUOTE]

True. I used to be quite militant about athiesm; not proud of it, but it is what it is. The old militant "me" used to think that conceding in that aspect was them cramming religion down my throat -- i've since tossed that ridiculous train of thought.

[Chili_Wango]

This has led me to another question then: since the majority of the military is Chrisitian, am I "in their house"? I dislike "alienating" myself using terms like that, but i've been treated in such ways before -- whether I wanted it or not.

To be perfectly blunt, as i've mentioned before, I was quite militant (radical), and I am still trying to deal with that part of me... I'm not looking to be an individual in the military and set myself apart, but i'm also trying to find balance on how to respect/be respected....

[sinjefe]

Respect is over rated. Be yourself and the world be damned.

IMO, since it was your home, your friend should have done his praying silently by himself. He's a jackass!

[plato]

Originally Posted by Chili_Wango

First, I appreciate your response. However, you bring up an interesting notion: "When you're in someones home (or country), it's a poor time to assert your individuality." We were in my home. I cooked. I had no problem with him saying a prayer.

I think I've suffered fewer injuries from slamming to the ground beneath an old T-10 than in jumping from my perceptions to a conclusion.

And, thank you for your courtesy.

I would have bowed my head, but that's probably to an old Southern upbringing. No logic to it, just like my Jewish friends wishing me a Merry Christmas.

Somehow however, the following rings in my mind....

"This is the grave of Mike O’Day,
He died defending his right of way,
His right was clear, his will was strong
But he is just as dead as if he’d been wrong."

Perhaps it's not as much a matter of personal conviction as it is nurturing personal relationships.

[Chili_Wango]

Originally Posted by plato

Perhaps it's not as much a matter of personal conviction as it is nurturing personal relationships.

I whole-heartedly agree. Sometimes I just need to swallow my "pride" and accept them for their faults .

[Snaquebite]

and he was throughly upset that I didn't place my hands on my lap and bow my head during prayer

Curious to know if he's so devout, how did he know that....did he peek?

[cbtengr]

I am not overly religious by any means, I believe in God and that Christ died for my sins but I would in no way foist my beliefs on anyone else. In the same vein I would not like anyone foisting their personal beliefs on me. If you were respectful of your guest as he/she prayed that is certainly good enough for me.

[kosty]

Originally Posted by Chili_Wango

All,

I have a question regarding non-theists and how to conduct oneself in a religious setting. I've come to understand that the military is quite religious; I am an athiest.

Quick background: grew up in a free-thinking Christian family (my mother claimed to be baptist, but the extent of our religious upbringing would be saying a prayer before eating and going to bed; however, that ended for me when I entered high school), and realized religion is not for me. Went to a private liberal-arts college where athiests were the majority and received dual degrees in biology and chemistry. Needless to say, I have had very little contact with religion throughout my life.

I recently had dinner with a friend who is quite devout, and he was throughly upset that I didn't place my hands on my lap and bow my head during prayer. I sat up straight and politely sat in silence until his ritual was complete. Was I in the wrong for not assuming the "praying position"?

CW

P.S. He is my only Christian friend and I have no where else to get opinions on the matter.

I'm a deeply devout person.

First, does your friend know that you're non-religious? Did you know that he wanted you to put your hands together and bow your head when he prayed?

If he knows you're not remotely religious, then he's got a problem. If you know that he expects you to bow your head, then you have a problem.

Being considerate is the issue.

[Richard]

Be polite - be yourself - don't let the door of 'pseudo-friends' hit them in the @$$ when they show it and leave over something like this.

Richard

Originally Posted by kosty

I'm a deeply devout person.

First, does your friend know that you're non-religious? Did you know that he wanted you to put your hands together and bow your head when he prayed?

If he knows you're not remotely religious, then he's got a problem. If you know that he expects you to bow your head, then you have a problem.

Being considerate is the issue.

Only a jackass would go to a friend's(or anyone else's) home and expect them to

bow to his wishes. The only problem Chili has is befriending this inconsiderate bastard.