03-30-2014, 16:52
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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What's Gone Wrong With Democracy?
Democracy was the most successful political idea of the 20th century. Why has it run into trouble, and what can be done to revive it?
http://www.economist.com/news/essays...what-can-be-do
And so it goes...
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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03-30-2014, 20:38
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
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Dead link.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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03-30-2014, 20:50
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
Dead link.
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I just tried it and it opened for me. 
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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03-30-2014, 21:14
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
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works for me also.....
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SF_BHT is offline
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03-31-2014, 06:22
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#5
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Location: Harrisburg, PA
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Actually I found the article to be rather sophomoric. I tend to read quickly through most stuff to see if there is anything worth studying a little deeper. This piece struck me as a waste of time. In the first place, most of our Founders feared democracy as akin to mob rule. They were precisely correct in that assessment and the recent examples of attempted and fledgling democracies is testament.
The uniqueness of the US is that it is a democratically elected constitutional republic - not a democracy. I used to view the Economist as a rather scholarly and thoughtful publication. Well, not any more. Now I am suspicious that it too has become just another pseudo-intellectual rag that is a messenger of misinformation to promote a progressive agenda. The ideological undercurrents are obvious. And the sad thing is that this opinion piece will reinforce the meme among the unthinking sheeple.
Shit- I am going to devolve into a rant!
Trapper John <out>
PS: Richard - great post! I do love a good piece of HUMINT and this piece tells me a lot about the state of thought (pseudo-intellectual), messaging style, and tactics we are up against.
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Honor Above All Else
Last edited by Trapper John; 03-31-2014 at 06:36.
Reason: Added after-thought
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Trapper John is offline
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03-31-2014, 11:32
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#6
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Location: Southern Mo
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I can save the author some time.
In order to have a perpetual democracy, citizens must understand that, with rights, come responsibilities. Picture this as a continuum. On one end, too many responsibilities without the necessary rights becomes tyranny or despotism. On the other end, all rights without any responsibilities leads to anarchy and economic collapse.
When a populace fails to understand this, but still has the ability to vote in the democratic society, the result inevitably skews toward the anarchy and economic collapse side of things. People vote to make their own lives easier and push off responsibilities to the "rich folks". The history of Argentina is a hell of a case study.
The end.
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"And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay
"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"Well Mr. Carpetbagger. We got something in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."
Josey Wales
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craigepo is offline
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03-31-2014, 12:04
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Harrisburg, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigepo
I can save the author some time.
In order to have a perpetual democracy, citizens must understand that, with rights, come responsibilities. Picture this as a continuum. On one end, too many responsibilities without the necessary rights becomes tyranny or despotism. On the other end, all rights without any responsibilities leads to anarchy and economic collapse.
When a populace fails to understand this, but still has the ability to vote in the democratic society, the result inevitably skews toward the anarchy and economic collapse side of things. People vote to make their own lives easier and push off responsibilities to the "rich folks". The history of Argentina is a hell of a case study.
The end.
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Honor Above All Else
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Trapper John is offline
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03-31-2014, 12:06
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#8
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,877
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...this is all good democracy talk, but at the core, I just want to know why my unemployment check is late again.
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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03-31-2014, 12:16
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Democracy
Take a look at Egypt.
Did they want a democracy or did the "hopeful" majority say "We only need 50.01%. We win, they lose."?
The majority immediately started writing out the minority's rights - which caused the next bit of turmoil.
Majority rule can be a bitch for the minority...
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Pete is offline
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03-31-2014, 12:25
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#10
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pinehurst,NC
Posts: 1,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John
Actually I found the article to be rather sophomoric. I tend to read quickly through most stuff to see if there is anything worth studying a little deeper. This piece struck me as a waste of time. In the first place, most of our Founders feared democracy as akin to mob rule. They were precisely correct in that assessment and the recent examples of attempted and fledgling democracies is testament.
The uniqueness of the US is that it is a democratically elected constitutional republic - not a democracy. I used to view the Economist as a rather scholarly and thoughtful publication. Well, not any more. Now I am suspicious that it too has become just another pseudo-intellectual rag that is a messenger of misinformation to promote a progressive agenda. The ideological undercurrents are obvious. And the sad thing is that this opinion piece will reinforce the meme among the unthinking sheeple.
Shit- I am going to devolve into a rant!
Trapper John <out>
PS: Richard - great post! I do love a good piece of HUMINT and this piece tells me a lot about the state of thought (pseudo-intellectual), messaging style, and tactics we are up against.
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Some rants are worth hearing now and again.
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Let us conduct ourselves in such a fashion that all nations wish to be our friends and all fear to be our enemies. The Virtues of War - Steven Pressfield
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dennisw is offline
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03-31-2014, 12:55
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John
The uniqueness of the US is that it is a democratically elected constitutional republic -
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Democratically constituted federal republic, TJ, is what we teach our students. 
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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03-31-2014, 13:22
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#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Democratically constituted federal republic, TJ, is what we teach our students.
Richard
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A federal republic can also be a constitutional republic (as in the US). They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
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sinjefe is offline
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03-31-2014, 15:25
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
A federal republic can also be a constitutional republic (as in the US). They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
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Thanks Bro! I was going to say... but you know how Richard is... 
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Honor Above All Else
Last edited by Trapper John; 03-31-2014 at 15:26.
Reason: Corrected typo before Richard caught me
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Trapper John is offline
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03-31-2014, 17:28
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
A federal republic can also be a constitutional republic (as in the US). They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John
Thanks Bro! I was going to say... but you know how Richard is... |
They don't - but they can...
- A republic can exist without a constitution
- A republic can exist without being federalist in structure
- A constitution can exist without being democratically ratified
The USA, on the other hand, is democratically constituted [having a constitution which lays out its governing principles and structures, and which was ratified (agreed to) democratically by its original member states], and has a republican (representative) form of government with a federalist structure which allocates the sharing of power between the national, and state (and local) governments.
As we teach in high school civics, the USA is not just a 'constitutional republic' or a 'federal republic', but a democratically constituted federal republic - an important distinction among world governments and in World History.
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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03-31-2014, 17:33
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Great easy on a very touchy topic.
Is Democracy the problem or the people behind it? I also look at countries going through these revolutions or whatever they are, I think too that in order to have a democracy work the country's citizens must understand it. Yes with democracy, come responsibilities, which most of these countries and unfortunately Americans don't understand.
What I see in many countries wanting democracy, you have people that think or want too much without the responsibilities or without the necessary rights do end up becoming tyrannies. On the other side, you have thinkers with all the rights without any responsibilities and leads to chaos.
Can we do down the list of which is which in these countries with these mini LIC and meltdowns.
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"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
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Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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