Recommendatons/Input on 308 NATO (7.62) Rifles

Spiffav8 · 11-03-2013, 11:56

Gentlemen,

I find myself wanting to do some precision and longer distance shooting. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various platforms out there for this and honestly don't know which way to go. I have a short list and was hoping that you could offer some feedback/input as I know many of you may have used some of rifles that are I am considering. My motto is "buy once, cry once" so I don't mind spending a bit to get the right one. There are limits to that though. Here's my short list....and I am not intending for this to be a "VS" type thread. Just likes, dislikes, pluses and minuses and things to look out for.

Respectfully,

SpiffAV8

Knights Armament SR25 ECC

LMT LM308MWSF

LaRue PredatOBR

SIG SAUER SIG716

**The Reaper** · 11-03-2013, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Gentlemen,

I find myself wanting to do some precision and longer distance shooting. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various platforms out there for this and honestly don't know which way to go. I have a short list and was hoping that you could offer some feedback/input as I know many of you may have used some of rifles that are I am considering. My motto is "buy once, cry once" so I don't mind spending a bit to get the right one. There are limits to that though. Here's my short list....and I am not intending for this to be a "VS" type thread. Just likes, dislikes, pluses and minuses and things to look out for.

Respectfully,

SpiffAV8

Knights Armament SR25 ECC

LMT LM308MWSF

LaRue PredatOBR

SIG SAUER SIG716

The best you listed is probably the LaRue, but there is a long line to get one.

The LMT is a very nice rifle from a great company.

The KAC is good, but the company is difficult to deal with and spare parts may be problematic.

I have no trigger time on the SIG.

HTH.

TR

Spiffav8 · 11-03-2013, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

The best you listed is probably the LaRue, but there is a long line to get one.

The LMT is a very nice rifle from a great company.

The KAC is good, but the company is difficult to deal with and spare parts may be problematic.

I have no trigger time on the SIG.

HTH.

TR

Thank you! Last I heard the wait is 18 months for the LaRue. The KAC is pretty hard to find and of course everyone who has one wants way over MSRP for them. Supply and Demand I suppose. I have heard nothing but good things about the LMT and honestly that's what I am leaning towards. I was able to get some trigger time with a SIG716 and while it's nice, I wasn't all that impressed with the trigger, weight or balance. I currently have a KAC SR-15 and I have to admit, I REALLY like it. So that kind of keeps the SR-25 on my list, even though the parts are hard to get.

I've learned, the expensive way, a few things I like and hope to avoid having to add to much to a platform to make it right for me. In addition to the SR-15 I have a DD Mk18 and a Colt 6920. Both have Geissele triggers and Battle Comp muzzle breaks along with a few others accessories. Once you add up all the extras, it's cheaper to buy a nicer stock gun. At the end of the day, the SR-15 is nicer and it was about the same price as "kitting up" my Colt.

I'm no pro. So I really appreciate any and all the input I can get here.

Thanks again.

Papa Zero Three · 11-03-2013, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Gentlemen,

I find myself wanting to do some precision and longer distance shooting. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various platforms out there for this and honestly don't know which way to go. I have a short list and was hoping that you could offer some feedback/input as I know many of you may have used some of rifles that are I am considering. My motto is "buy once, cry once" so I don't mind spending a bit to get the right one. There are limits to that though. Here's my short list....and I am not intending for this to be a "VS" type thread. Just likes, dislikes, pluses and minuses and things to look out for.

Respectfully,

SpiffAV8

Knights Armament SR25 ECC

LMT LM308MWSF

LaRue PredatOBR

SIG SAUER SIG716

You may also want to consider the GAP10 and MATEN. Expect a wait for a GAP10 as with any custom made gun these days. The MATEN, you can build yourself or obtain the parts and take them to your gunsmith for assembly. John Mcquade of 8541 tactical has a very good youtube video series on the building of a MATEN that he recently did thats worth checking out.

mdpatterson · 11-03-2013, 19:20

Just another option to check out if you haven't already. I agree that Larue is the best one on your list. The wait is long, but you can find them on Gunbroker and other sites. There is one for sale now......prices always above MSRP though.

Mike

Spiffav8 · 11-03-2013, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Zero Three

You may also want to consider the GAP10 and MATEN. Expect a wait for a GAP10 as with any custom made gun these days. The MATEN, you can build yourself or obtain the parts and take them to your gunsmith for assembly. John Mcquade of 8541 tactical has a very good youtube video series on the building of a MATEN that he recently did thats worth checking out.

Zero Three,

Well thank you for the suggestions. The MATEN is very cool, but honestly way above my know how. When at home, I work part time for a custom gun shop and I'm sure the guys in the back could help me build one. Choosing everything would probably drive me insane though.

The GAP10 looks amazing....and when you bring up Google Images, it shows two of my favorite things.

I watched a YouTube video of some guy named Travis showing just what can be done with the GAP10 and have to admit, it is impressive! Price is decent to boot. I am going to add it to my list as I do some more research and bump the SIG716. It just doesn't seem to hold a candle to the others.

VR

**Peregrino** · 11-03-2013, 20:39

I think you're overthinking this. The AR platform is inherently accurate. A decent trigger, a decent barrel, and a free-float hand guard and they'll ALL shoot as well as an equivalent bolt gun. You've listed a couple of quality rifles but do you really need to spend that kind of money? If you have access to a custom gun shop why haven't you considered a DPMS 308? I know a number of serious competitors who are using DPMS receivers (or clones) for their custom builds. They are the current standard (Chevy/Ford of the 308 ARs) and easy to work with. They're readily available, relatively inexpensive, and (in the mid/upper grades) as accurate and reliable as anything you've listed. Swap in a Geissele trigger, spend decent money on optics (you'll have to do that with everything else too) and spend the savings on decent ammo. It's not the LaRue (which is a Cadillac rifle) but you're neither paying nor waiting what it'll take to get the LaRue. FWIW - I use one for plinking at 1000yds. It easily holds the 10 ring with LR118 (but only when I get the wind right!). That's decent accuracy in anyone's book and IIRC I've only got about $1400 in the rifle. (The scope costs more than the rifle.)

When you get a chance how about posting a new introduction? Your old one seems to have gotten "misplaced".

Spiffav8 · 11-03-2013, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrino

I think you're overthinking this. The AR platform is inherently accurate. A decent trigger, a decent barrel, and a free-float hand guard and they'll ALL shoot as well as an equivalent bolt gun. You've listed a couple of quality rifles but do you really need to spend that kind of money? If you have access to a custom gun shop why haven't you considered a DPMS 308? I know a number of serious competitors who are using DPMS receivers (or clones) for their custom builds. They are the current standard (Chevy/Ford of the 308 ARs) and easy to work with. They're readily available, relatively inexpensive, and (in the mid/upper grades) as accurate and reliable as anything you've listed. Swap in a Geissele trigger, spend decent money on optics (you'll have to do that with everything else too) and spend the savings on decent ammo. It's not the LaRue (which is a Cadillac rifle) but you're neither paying nor waiting what it'll take to get the LaRue. FWIW - I use one for plinking at 1000yds. It easily holds the 10 ring with LR118 (but only when I get the wind right!). That's decent accuracy in anyone's book and IIRC I've only got about $1400 in the rifle. (The scope costs more than the rifle.)

When you get a chance how about posting a new introduction? Your old one seems to have gotten "misplaced".

That's some great advice. I did that to my Colt (5.56) and it's a fairly nice shooting rifle and honestly it's been my favorite up till now. I only have 60 rounds through the SR-15 I picked up, so that might change.

I'll roll over to the intro section, though there's not much to tell. Honestly, I've been here for awhile and though I haven't posted till now, I've learned some great things from the sites members. Lot of good people here.

FlagDayNCO · 11-04-2013, 09:56

As Peregrino mentioned, the DPMS will do you no wrong, and can make you a believer in the long run.

For what it's worth, you can order a LaRue and wait it out. Save your money, possibly in a Christmas Account or something like that. If one of the other options comes along at a reasonable price, buy it. Or continue to wait for your LaRue. You pay no money to LaRue until your rifle is ready. That 18 month wait keeps getting longer and longer. You can cancel your order at any time.

Nice thing about the DPMS recommendation is you can get a reputable smith to assemble it for you. If something goes wrong, it's an easy fix, as DPMS parts are easier to come by than any of the others listed.

Think of your purchase as an investment, in the terms of continued function. The money you save on the DPMS route will allow you to purchase the scope and an extra barrel and parts. Don't forget the ammunition.

You never know when Uncle Sam will declare parts of Rifle XX to be banned. The other side is if Rifle XX is in high demand, there may be no spare parts.

The military collectors gobble up all the KAC parts. LWRC only uses LWRC parts, etc. When you're on the range, will you be able to repair it or have to send it back to manufacturer?

frostfire · 11-08-2013, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Gentlemen,

I find myself wanting to do some precision and longer distance shooting. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various platforms out there for this and honestly don't know which way to go. I have a short list and was hoping that you could offer some feedback/input as I know many of you may have used some of rifles that are I am considering. My motto is "buy once, cry once" so I don't mind spending a bit to get the right one. There are limits to that though. Here's my short list....and I am not intending for this to be a "VS" type thread. Just likes, dislikes, pluses and minuses and things to look out for.

Respectfully,

SpiffAV8

Knights Armament SR25 ECC

LMT LM308MWSF

LaRue PredatOBR

SIG SAUER SIG716

FWIW, often overlooked in the pursuit for precision shooting using AR platform is the time and dedication required to drive a gas gun to its max potential. I was right where you are at few years back, and have spent more $$$ and time to just barely make the OBR a part of the body and extension of the will, compared to if I had started with a solid bolt platform like the TRG. Furthermore, that state of proficiency is so very perishable...I mean from stacking 10 rds < 1MOA < 1min to having a "precision" scatter gun

So make sure you count that cost and have no regret.

Having said that,I concur with much that had been said:
- SIG 716 can use trigger replacement. Other than that, surprisingly capable to get sub-MOA with FGMM and it's more competitive price-wise than LWRC, POF, and other piston platform
- No experience with LMT
- No experience with GAP10. Now that George includes the adjustable gas block, it's more and more attractive than OBR though. Also keep in mind Larue does not do mil discount anymore...
- OBR is dead solid sub-MOA gasser. You can cancel the order right on shipping day, because another buyer would line up for it. I'm still irritated I shot the SR25 test rifle at 37 into smaller 1 hole 4-5 rds group than my OBR, though

Right, Rick? I forgot what excuse we came up with. Perhaps something along the line of rifle/barrel break-in

- I defer SR25 to those who've used them day in-day out, and had to deal with QC consistency

Spiffav8 · 11-08-2013, 19:58

Guys I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the information. It's got me thinking and asking the right questions. Today I ran into a good friend that I haven't seen for awhile. The man knows his guns! So of course I started asking a ton of questions. He has offered to help me build one. We are going to put a together a parts list and I'll post it up here for and you all can let me know what you think.

Thanks guys!!

Spiffav8 · 11-09-2013, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

FWIW, often overlooked in the pursuit for precision shooting using AR platform is the time and dedication required to drive a gas gun to its max potential. I was right where you are at few years back, and have spent more $$$ and time to just barely make the OBR a part of the body and extension of the will, compared to if I had started with a solid bolt platform like the TRG. Furthermore, that state of proficiency is so very perishable...I mean from stacking 10 rds < 1MOA < 1min to having a "precision" scatter gun

So make sure you count that cost and have no regret.

Having said that,I concur with much that had been said:
- SIG 716 can use trigger replacement. Other than that, surprisingly capable to get sub-MOA with FGMM and it's more competitive price-wise than LWRC, POF, and other piston platform
- No experience with LMT
- No experience with GAP10. Now that George includes the adjustable gas block, it's more and more attractive than OBR though. Also keep in mind Larue does not do mil discount anymore...
- OBR is dead solid sub-MOA gasser. You can cancel the order right on shipping day, because another buyer would line up for it. I'm still irritated I shot the SR25 test rifle at 37 into smaller 1 hole 4-5 rds group than my OBR, though

Right, Rick? I forgot what excuse we came up with. Perhaps something along the line of rifle/barrel break-in

- I defer SR25 to those who've used them day in-day out, and had to deal with QC consistency

With you already having traveled this road...we may need to talk a bit more. I am going to look into building one with the help of a friend who knows his stuff. I'll post up the build sheet soon.

Spiffav8 · 11-13-2013, 19:32

Well....after some discussion, study and comparison....I bought a NEMO Tango 8. It has a nice list of parts and great reviews. It's price is comparable to others in it's class as well. It should be here in a day or two and I am looking forward to range time with it. A buddy has offered to lone me a very nice Scope, till I can get one of my own. Should be fun.

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it.