Arrows that fire a .38 or .357?

[35NCO]

http://www.racembac.com/our-products/bow-mag/#

I stumbled onto this on a popular forum.

A couple things of interest besides, "What’s the point?"

NFA calls this what exactly? If not NFA does it fall under GCA?

1. How is this not a destructive device?
2. How is this not a Firearm?-IE does kinetic initiation of the primer still constitute a firearm?
3. Would it not be illegal for an individual to manufacture this? It seems it would fall under, Penguns, DD's, or maybe an AOW.

These questions make me wonder how long it’s going to take for the ATF to go nuts about this. Unless I am missing something, I never knew of a company selling something like this before. If it does not specifically fall under any of the NFA definitions or GCA definitions it opens some doors for testing of kinetic weapon systems at the individual level that may not have been considered legal before.

I thought it might be worth discussion besides the obvious reference to Rambo movies. Seriously, has anyone tried this and found a good use for it? It’s an interesting concept I just do not see the application. I suppose besides some sort of improvised weapon system...or maybe a Scuba application?

[JJ_BPK]

My Opine:

This falls into the same crack as Bang Sticks used in/on/with spear guns.

On the surface it sure looks like it should be covered by something the ATF mumbles..

I have a 44 mag head that came with a 6ft, 3/4", aluminum spear. I picked it up at a pawn shop that didn't have an FFL. I asked and the owner said it was not covered??

I have also seem many bang sticks sold on ebay, without problems..

[MR2]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I have also seem many bang sticks sold on ebay, without problems..

That's because eBay is clueless and not figured out that they should be clueless and react.

[35NCO]

Thanks for the response. I had known about bang sticks. I did not know that there was spear gun configurations. I suppose it really does not matter how its used. It still confuses/surprises me that it does not fall into anything "Gun Control" wise. Its most likely because its such an unknown device to politicians and mass public opinion.

I am not a hunter,(Slowly getting into it) but the next thing it would make me wonder about is how there are seasons in what hunting weapon is appropriate for that season. I mean, If its bow season, are you hunting with a gun or a bow? I guess it would have to be for personal private property use depending on the state.

The eBay stuff is falling apart again. I remember the good old days when they still had guns. Then that lady accidentally sold her late husbands full auto UZI to an individuals home address. After that, they got rid of the gun section.

Then they would not allow any more parts kits after that. The funny thing is if you search right, all that stuff besides receivers is slowly creeping back on. You can now get a lot of good 1911 stuff on there. I think their listings are becoming so vast they can not control it anymore. It wont be long before they tighten it up again.

[Guymullins]

I would say that this device, with no barrel, would be considerably less deadly than a conventional broad head shot from the same bow. Without a barrel to confine the hot gasses and allow time for the expansion of these gasses to speed the bullet on its way, the result is a recipe for flesh wounds. The advertising material suggest that it can be used on quite large animals is probably overstating the effectiveness as well as being inhumane. After all, few people would go hunting an elk with a .38 pistol in the first place.

[miclo18d]

Not being well read in on the NFA, I have a take with state law... Even if it's not considered a weapon by the state (FL) once it is used as a weapon it has the same definition as such. E.g. If you have a baseball bat, it is just a baseball bat. If you use said baseball bat to strike someone, it is a deadly weapon. If bang stick or arrow bullet is used as intended, it is nothing but a tool for use in hunting or protection from dangerous animals. Once used against a human, it is a deadly weapon and considered just like a gun. Another example in the law is robbing a bank with a plastic gun is still armed robbery because the people you intimidated with it didn't know if it was real or not.

[The_Mentalist]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

Not being well read in on the NFA, I have a take with state law... Even if it's not considered a weapon by the state (FL) once it is used as a weapon it has the same definition as such. E.g. If you have a baseball bat, it is just a baseball bat. If you use said baseball bat to strike someone, it is a deadly weapon. If bang stick or arrow bullet is used as intended, it is nothing but a tool for use in hunting or protection from dangerous animals. Once used against a human, it is a deadly weapon and considered just like a gun. Another example in the law is robbing a bank with a plastic gun is still armed robbery because the people you intimidated with it didn't know if it was real or not.

In TN you don't even have to have an actual weapon. Merely stating you have one constitutes armed robbery.

As to the questions about hunting seasons. The device would fall under the primitive weapons season since the bow fired head must strike the animal to initiate any action just as a broadhead has to strike the animal in order to cut through. However, these devices being new, the politicians will have to figure it out for themselves.

Finally, as for cruelty to the animal, I see it as a smaller version of a bang stick. In a bang stick, it is not so much the shrapnel doing the damage, but the shock to the vitals caused by the explosion of the charge expanding into the body cavity. Personally, I wouldn't use these devices. I see a potential hazard from brush or whatever causing discharge of the round. I just don't know enough about how much resistance the head would need in order to discharge. I think I will stick with either a real broadhead or a rifle to go hunting.