03-18-2013, 05:09
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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Facing protective orders and allowed to keep guns
"For all its rage and terror, the episode might well have been prevented. Had Mr. Holten lived in one of a handful of states, the protection order would have forced him to relinquish his firearms. But that is not the case in Washington and most of the country, in large part because of the influence of the National Rifle Association and its allies."
When you read this article, remember that the writers are talking about confiscating a person's firearms before they have been afforded a hearing. They also do not discuss they huge majority of these cases that are found to have no basis for issuance.
Also remember that the Constitution protects a citizen from having his life, liberty and property taken without due process of law.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us..._20130318&_r=0
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craigepo is offline
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03-18-2013, 06:35
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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From the article.....
From the article........
".........In these most volatile of human dramas, they contend, the right to bear arms must give ground to the need to protect a woman’s life. ..............."
I agree completely with the statement. But to me it means the woman should be given a free firearms class by the local PD, issued a CCW permit and directed to the nearest gun shop.
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Pete is offline
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03-18-2013, 06:48
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: central Florida
Posts: 352
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Thank you.
Torn, I see the woman's point, if the husband did make those statements with intent, then stricter measures should have been imposed.
But on the other side, it may be a she said - he said and no need for more regulation.
Seems like it needs to be handled on a case by case basis, which would take more resources, but better serve the parties involved.
m&c
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medic&commo is offline
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03-18-2013, 07:02
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sirius Channel 23
Posts: 521
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And in how many cases have the PO's been used as an offensive weapon against the male spouce? Happens all the time here in the peoples republic of Maryland.
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2018commo is offline
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03-18-2013, 07:36
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,841
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The PO is not worth the paper it is printed on if either party chooses to ignore it. Women would be better served to get some training in firearms protection, arm themselves and then put those tools to practical use if needed. We need more unenforceable laws in this country.
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cbtengr is offline
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03-18-2013, 09:55
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
But to me it means the woman should be given a free firearms class by the local PD, issued a CCW permit and directed to the nearest gun shop.
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Precisely. Instead of a gun buy-back program, how about Train & Arm the Nice Lady Down the Street Week?"
While sympathetic to the circumstances in the reported case, I don't agree that an individual occurrence - whether it be a Newtown or a domestic issue (or alleged online bullying using social media) or a benign remark by a vet to a counselor who makes a subjective interpretation on the record - is cause to change due-process. Judges have latitude to exercise in specific cases; they should pony-up & exercise it. In my experience, well-intentioned over-reach seldom turns out well.
Am aware of two women personally who have remarked as to how they'd jam their husband up & "get the Sheriff to come take away all his guns." Such attitudes are out there.
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Badger52 is offline
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03-18-2013, 10:33
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,950
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A lot of these restraining orders filed by women are bogus and are done out of spite. I had to store one of my hunting buddy's weapons in my safe because his wife filed a restraining order against him. She now wants to "be friends" and admitted she had done it because she was mad at him...
Last edited by mark46th; 03-18-2013 at 15:41.
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mark46th is offline
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03-18-2013, 12:25
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 4,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark46th
A lot of these restraining orders filed by women are bogus and are done out of spite. I had to store one of my hunting budd'y weapons in my safe because his wife filed a restraining order against him. She now wants to "be friends" and admited she had done it because she was mad at him...
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We can be "friends" as long as we have nothing to do with each other.
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MR2 is offline
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03-18-2013, 14:15
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#9
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: RURAL, south central Montana
Posts: 39
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As a Licensed "Shrink" for 20 years, I have dealt with a mulitude of marital conflicts--in some the woman is the aggressor/instigater, in many it is the man who resorts first to threats, intimidation and/or violence. I agree that it needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.
I also agree that POs/TROs are pretty useless, except that they MAY be able to demonstrate one person's willingness to use force/intimidation. I personally recommend that the person in the most danger get a PO, as well as get training and get themselves a sidearm.
There have been occasions where I and my family (who live near-by) have gone to threat-condition Red due to violent spouses of my mental health patients, and I routinely carry even during Therapy sessions......
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Chaplain Scott is offline
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03-18-2013, 14:45
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#10
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 86
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The insanity about these pieces is that they think removing a gun from the equation makes her somehow safe. If her husband wants to kill her, he will be it with a gun, knife or even a vehicle. The logic is so faulty I can't really comprehend how they can present it as a valid argument.
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RedLegGI is offline
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03-18-2013, 15:43
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,950
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"The logic is so faulty I can't really comprehend how they can present it as a valid argument..." RedlegGI
Well, as my friend from the ghetto once said, "Bitches be crazy."
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mark46th is offline
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03-18-2013, 19:10
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Western New York State
Posts: 318
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Teach your daughter to shoot and she wont need paper.
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Destrier is offline
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03-19-2013, 05:56
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#13
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 365
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Here is an issue from Texas
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Dad is offline
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03-19-2013, 07:44
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad
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HIPPA is a national problem that will challenge many laws that are being sought right now. Because we have shot ourselves in the foot, with silly law after silly law that ultimately will confuse and confound your very freedoms -- this law says it's okay, but this law contradicts that law.
They tried to restrict access to medical records from the teams 18D's through HIPPA. So basically a team medic couldn't even get the records to take with them on missions.
Restraining orders are as worthless as the paper they are written on. They reinforce the saying "When seconds count, police are just minutes away." I don't think my wife (and women like her) ever considered armed defense until she met me. Common sense conversations on crime, self defense, and the 2nd Amd. were taught to her and I got to learn about Christian Louboutin, Panerai, and Hugo Boss.
"L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs" -- St Bernard
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