A forgotten part of MACVSOG.....

www.ptfnasty.com/index.html

[Richard]

OPS-31 isn't forgotten, just a bit lesser known outside the community - like the half dozen SEALs who were actually attached to some of the RTs at CCN and CCC.

And so it goes...

Richard

[JYD73]

Absolutely, it also appears as though more SEALs were filtered into operations when SOG changed into STDA.

LT Thomas Rolland Norris, MoH for actions on 4/13/72, presented 3/6/76

Engineman First Class Michael Edwin Thornton, MoH for actions 10/31/72, presented 10/15/73

and then there was OPS-33
http://www.psywarrior.com/SSPLVietnam.html

[JYD73]

Can any of the warriors of SOG tell me if you know:

Was SGT Michael D. Buchanan's DSC a downgraded MoH nomination, as SGT James Pruitt's was on the same mission? Who, if any, were the other Americans involved on this EPW snatch mission?

Thanks much for any information you can provide, and thank you all again for your service!

[Richard]

Originally Posted by JYD73

Can any of the warriors of SOG tell me if you know:

Was SGT Michael D. Buchanan's DSC a downgraded MoH nomination, as SGT James Pruitt's was on the same mission? Who, if any, were the other Americans involved on this EPW snatch mission?

Thanks much for any information you can provide, and thank you all again for your service!

Ask Bru - he knew Buck and probably knows for sure.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...mber.php?u=607

Richard

[JYD73]

Thank you Sir

[bushmaster11]

Just an aside. GEN Abrahms came to CCN compound to make the presentation. I was holding the awards pillow, so I was next to them both. GEN Abrahms said "I don't think you deserve this." Then moved down the line. I thought and continue to think what an asshole. When he became COS, and began disassembling the SF community it was clear he had a hard on for all in spec ops.

J R sends
DeOppresso Liber

[JYD73]

Thanks Sir,

I have heard this from many of the SF about Gen. Abrams. The first MoH effort from MACV-SOG that I have been working on for several years now, Gen. Abrams tried unsuccessfully to have it downgraded to a SS. I have a FOIA in with the MoH packets of SSG Pruitt and SGT Rose, and I highly suspect to find a pattern in downgrades (Should have files April-May sometime). The original SOG MoH nomination I have been working with also had access to both the witnesses and 5th SFG denied to the Army Decorations and Awards Board by 3 separate statements that "5th SFG and the witnesses had departed the RVN and no more information is available"

MG Singlaub mentioned Gen. Abrams animosity against SF in a 2005 DSC Presentation(from the 1970 MoH downgrade). He said that Abrams asked him why so many of his guys were award nominations, and that they would make better tankers than running around in the jungle.

One of the primary problems with MACV-SOG medals and awards was MACV-SOG being outside Reg. Army jurisdiction and knowledge of operation, but subject to Reg. Army in review of medals and awards for presentation. That Gen. Abrams couldn’t directly control SOG was a point of contention too, he was not happy with SOG receiving more awards per capita than his regular armored favorites.

Of note: Just recently got back from DC (5 Mar 13) on a lobbying effort for time limit waivers on MACV-SOG, SF and Spec. Ops. declassed operations medals and awards, had the honor of 3 MACV-SOG warriors coming with me on this trip and we a VSO from the VFW helping us. Half the battle with DSC and MoH is time limit on award. We were able to meet with 6 Senators and Congressmen's offices as well as staff from the House Armed Services Committee. Hope we did some good, time and persistence will tell....

[rwt_bkk]

Yes there is a lot of history surrounding Abrams and SOG. What a mean little man he was... I was there the day Buck got the DSC too. I remember the loudspeaker going out and when it came back on, the CO asked Abrams if he would re-read the citation so that the men could hear it, Abrams said "No!) and drove on. After giving out the last reward he left. The only one of that group that stuck around and talked to the guys was Gen Walt (later to be the MC commandant) who was wearing a real honest to God Micky Mouse watch!

I remember we were not supposed to have magazine for the weapons but everyone had one stashed on their body - just in case that sniper opened up on us - maybe one of us could get that jerk in the ensuing confusion

[UWOA (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rwt_bkk

Yes there is a lot of history surrounding Abrams and SOG. What a mean little man he was... I was there the day Buck got the DSC too. I remember the loudspeaker going out and when it came back on, the CO asked Abrams if he would re-read the citation so that the men could hear it, Abrams said "No!) and drove on. After giving out the last reward he left. The only one of that group that stuck around and talked to the guys was Gen Walt (later to be the MC commandant) who was wearing a real honest to God Micky Mouse watch!

I remember we were not supposed to have magazine for the weapons but everyone had one stashed on their body - just in case that sniper opened up on us - maybe one of us could get that jerk in the ensuing confusion

It wasn't just SOG ... it was all SF. We got hit hardest by the RIF; it was one of the easiest ways for Abrams to thin our ranks. I was selected for the RIF in '73 and returned stateside. However, an injury my spouse suffered allowed me to extend for a year. The folks stateside were amazed I didn't go into "stack arms" mode. Three months in as four people left the unit I was assigned to, I assumed their responsibilities. Long story short, they put me in for promotion to a standby board and I was selected. As far as I know, I was the only officer promoted in a RIF status under Abram's criteria -- "not fully qualified, but only the best qualified shall be promoted." Considering that most non-SF officers skated past the RIF and than a substantial percentage were non-selected for promotion MILPERSCEN couldn't explain why I was on the RIF list and agreed to take me off -- but they wouldn't say I wouldn't be selected again by another RIF board. I got the message. I took the REFRAD and started a new career with similar requirements, but different ROE.

[perdurabo]

Originally Posted by rwt_bkk

I remember we were not supposed to have magazine for the weapons but everyone had one stashed on their body - just in case that sniper opened up on us - maybe one of us could get that jerk in the ensuing confusion

Sir, could you elaborate on this bit for those of us not clued in?