M9 Issues

SERPENT5XX · 10-22-2004, 11:41

Gentlemen,

This might start a controversy but I need to ask. (My wife claims I enjoy controversy)

Is or has anyone else in the SF community had issues with their M9’s?

I know most of you out there are familiar with the magazine problems but this has to do with the locking blocks breaking.

I have seen problems with the locking blocks for years. At one time it was just a mild irritation. I thought that because my ODA was a CQB Team and that we shot so much more pistol that we just tore the guns up faster than the other Teams. Now that I have had the misfortune of being moved to a staff position I have realized it is a much larger problem. In fairness, Teams across the board shoot much more due to GWOT, SFAUC, attendance of civilian shooting schools like Mid-South Institute, and an increased emphasis on missions where the M9 is the primary or only weapon carried or at least the weapon most accessible. Most of the time when a block broke the 18B would just swap out the block and the guy will get back to training. That is how we usually operated. We just wanted to get back to training. Lately it has become such a frequent and wide spread occurrence that it can no longer be ignored or handled as a work around. The problem is that there is really no long-term documented problem at levels that can affect this problem. At least that is the story we are being told.

What am I talking about as far as round count? Probably any where between 300 to 1,000 rounds fired per day depending on the training event. Depending on the training event it could be a sustained 5 to 10 days of that round count. This event might be done several times a year. So on the low side we are talking about 10,000 rounds a year through a gun and on the high side 50,000 a year. I have heard that the factory acknowledged life span of the M9 is 10,000 round. If this were true, you would think that someone would realize we could use a more durable gun.

I am interested if any of you have observed this same problem or has the desert heat finally baked my brain.

Your comments are encouraged.

Thanks!

SERPENT5XX

**Roguish Lawyer** · 10-22-2004, 13:26

mffjm8509 · 10-22-2004, 15:46

I've encounted the same problem with locking blocks on the M9.

When we incorperated marksmanship training into Phase II of the Qcourse we drew a couple of hundred M9s from the SWC Armsroom. This is where I saw the majority of the problem. I doubt they keep round counts on the pistols, at least we never turned a round count into them.

Its happened twice on my team in the past year as well. We keep a couple of extras in the repair kit now, and I'm trying to get them all replaced w/new barrels prior to deployment.

There are a couple of locking blocks out there, so be careful what you order. About 10 years ago Beretta developed a new block with a taperd flangethat is supposed to last longer. The ones in our kits are still the early models.

mp

Tuukka · 10-22-2004, 16:11

Yes, the Berettas over here have exhibited the same problem, thats a weak link in the design.

shadowflyer · 10-25-2004, 17:28

We have seen the same thing with the M9's here at 20th GRP as well. The armorers just change em out and bam ready to go again for another 5k rounds or so.

mffjm8509 · 10-25-2004, 17:42

Thats a good point, and why we keep a few in the tool box. You can easily swap the parts and continue shooting and turn in a 2406 for maintenance records later. The locking block is definately the weakest link, and the pistol should outlast this part signifigantly.

mp

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowflyer

We have seen the same thing with the M9's here at 20th GRP as well. The armorers just change em out and bam ready to go again for another 5k rounds or so.

Sinister · 10-26-2004, 17:58

I have had the locking lug break with a live round in the chamber. I could not clear the weapon because of the way the lug broke (you could not retract the slide).

In Okinawa I would have my troops turn in their M9s by ODA when we reached 5,500 rounds. My PBO would then issue new pistols and we would return the used guns directly to the National Inventory Control Point (NICP), the first place in the Army chain where they receive materiel from the civilian manufacturer.

I was going to take a .45 to Iraq, but the Chief of Staff of the unit I was augmenting warned me he only had 9mm ammo. I drew an M9 and deployed. The very first round out of the brand new magazine to test-fire in Saudi was a failure to feed.

Psywar1-0 · 10-26-2004, 19:42

Everyone cross their fingers and hope the moon and planets are in alignment come 1 January and I will be doing my best to get you a replacement for the M9. USSOCOM just dropped a tasking in Crane's lap to come up with a new pistol to issue to all SOF. It will punch a bigger hole than the M9 and weigh less than the SEAL's Boat Anchor Offensive Pistol. Im kinda sold on the MARSOC Det 1 pistol AKA the Kimber Warrior, but heaven forbid we just wholesale adopt something that the Marines did the R&D on

The Army would never do that, never..............

shadowflyer · 10-26-2004, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psywar1-0

Everyone cross their fingers and hope the moon and planets are in alignment come 1 January and I will be doing my best to get you a replacement for the M9. USSOCOM just dropped a tasking in Crane's lap to come up with a new pistol to issue to all SOF. It will punch a bigger hole than the M9 and weigh less than the SEAL's Boat Anchor Offensive Pistol. Im kinda sold on the MARSOC Det 1 pistol AKA the Kimber Warrior, but heaven forbid we just wholesale adopt something that the Marines did the R&D on

The Army would never do that, never..............

Please do ....I will welcome a new pistol. I know that most everyone will.....

JJ

DanUCSB · 10-27-2004, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psywar1-0

I will be doing my best to get you a replacement for the M9. USSOCOM just dropped a tasking in Crane's lap to come up with a new pistol to issue to all SOF.

I don't know about a new pistol, but I know of an old one that seems to be holding up just fine.

Tuukka · 10-27-2004, 01:39

Psywar1-0, you are referring to the USP Compact Tactical with the shortened KAC can?

From what ive heard there´s also a rather good modified 6004 for it from Safariland.

Psywar1-0 · 10-27-2004, 07:51

Since the tasking to find a new pistol is less than a month old, I doubt that there has been a selection made.

10-27-2004, 07:53

As far as I can tell, the M1911 designed by John Browning is holding up just fine.

The military should have never let the Air Force and Navy push the M9 on all the services. Back when the testing process was going on, the other two options that were seriously considered (as I remember it... we are talking over 20 years ago) were a SIG (cost more than the Beretta) and a Colt rebuild of the existing frames in the inventory (new slides, barrels, mags, hammers, etc. - 9mm). The Colt rebuild was the choice of the Army and Marines if I remember, the SEALs wanted the SIG (and it was adopted as an alternative weapon) but the Air Force (with most of the Navy going along) pushed the Beretta because they claimed the 1911 design had too big a frame for female hands, didn't hold enough rounds, and required too much training.

**The Reaper** · 10-27-2004, 08:13

The SIG was actually cheaper in the first round of bidding.

Rumor was that SIG got the M-11 contract to get them to drop their lawsuit over the M-9 bidding process.

The services had to go to 9mm due to congressional action stopping the procurement of .45ACP ammo.

Now we may be headed back. Go figure.

TR

ktek01 · 10-27-2004, 09:14

No first hand experience with the M9, but I did notice that while all the team members on our local ODA had a pistol on their hip, none of them were M9s.