How to fix this mess we're now in

[craigepo]

This president is bound and determined to spend us into oblivion. Too many of our elected federal politicians assist, by using taxpayer dollars to buy the people "stuff", indirectly buying votes. This is pain-free for both the payor and the payee---the only people losing are the hard-working taxpayers of this country.

When this country came into being, it necessarily ran large debts, due to fighting revolutionary wars, or buying huge chunks of land (the Louisiana Purchase). Fast-forward to today, we borrow money from China to purchase GM Stocks to bail the auto company out, then Obama gives that stock to union members in the rust belt, who then vote unanimously for Obama.

If our Constitution is inadequate as to any issue, it is to debt and deficit-spending. Countries in Europe (amazingly) have recently added to their Constitutions "debt brakes", which constitutionally forbid spending above a certain level of GDP. 49 of the 50 States of the United States have balanced-budget provisions (though a few states like Illinois and California refuse to follow theirs).

This election proves to me that we are not going to wind up with prudent politicians any time soon. Moreover, our voting populace is not going to become either smarter or more self-sacrificing quick enough to save this nation.

I agree with some that the GOP must find a way to bring in hispanic and women voters. However, in my humble opinion, the ONLY way out of our morass, and to ensure the existence of this great nation into the future, is to enact a Balanced Budget Amendment to the United States Constitution, or in the alternative, one of the debt-brakes like Germany.

A real bummer---the honest hard-working people of this nation are going to feel the hurt now, and they are going to feel the hurt later when it comes time to pay the piper. This guy just got reelected by a whole bunch of people with little-to-no skin in the game.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...ment-next-year

[Gypsy]

The House's job now is to block everything they can until there is a budget for this country.

IL is a lost cause, we are basically bankrupt and the people voted out 7 republicans for 7 democrats to include Derrick Smith.

One of those Democratic wins in the statehouse was state Rep. Derrick Smith (D-Chicago), who won reelection in the state's heavily Democratic 10th legislative district despite being arrested on a felony bribery charge and subsequently expelled from the statehouse in a historic vote by his peers earlier this year. Unless Smith is convicted, he cannot be re-expelled for the same reason as the previous expulsion, per state law.

I am seriously considering relocation...however I don't think it's prudent to quit my job right now.

[Roguish Lawyer]

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

[The Reaper]

Can you dig it?

TR

“The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’

‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

[ECUPirate09]

So what would be some possible solutions to stop the bleeding? Stricter voting laws (own property, have a job, etc)?

[SF18C]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

Not that I wish to argue with a lawyer but you do know Tocqueville didn't say that?

However in 1951, Elmer T. Peterson wrote in The Daily Oklahoman, "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Regardless of who said it, it is still true!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by SF18C

Not that I wish to argue with a lawyer but you do know Tocqueville didn't say that?

However in 1951, Elmer T. Peterson wrote in The Daily Oklahoman, "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Regardless of who said it, it is still true!

I have not read the book since college and, while I have it at home, I took the quote from a website not the book. So if you tell me he didn't say it, I believe you.

[SF18C]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I have not read the book since college and, while I have it at home, I took the quote from a website not the book. So if you tell me he didn't say it, I believe you.

For those interested Alexis Tocqueville’s Democracy in America Vol I & II, it is free at Amazon for the Kindle edition.

I am making my kid read it for her English class (we home school, so I get to pick some of the reading assingments), she hate me!!!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by SF18C

I am making my kid read it for her English class (we home school, so I get to pick some of the reading assingments), she hate me!!!

You are a great American!

[SF18C]

So to the original question of this thread...and yes I totally expect getting blasted on all sides with this!

Listen, first I am the probably the least educated among us and don’t really have the ability to express myself very well in written form but I do feel it is necessary to point out a few things that conservative and those RINO types may over look at times.

A political party that cannot defeat an incumbent president that spent 6 trillion dollars to get us to 8% unemployment, no budget passed in 3 years and many, many other out right failures AINT much of a political party. I do agree the Repubs had to fight the mainstream media but that just tells me their message just lacked a “fundamental truth” that could transcend even the most slanted of media outlets.

I feel that this time we must look to the Constitution as our guiding principle and see how to move forward. The Preamble to the Constitution states:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Why is that important? Many will in our line of work understand the “provide for the common defense” part but many Big R types will skip over the “promote the general Welfare” line. Now maybe the definition of welfare is the key but the book definition is
1) The health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
2) Statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need.

Now was that the definition in use back in the 1700’s? I don’t know but it seems to me the RINO/ultra conservative crowd is overlooking direct guidance in Constitution, Article 1 Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United State.

So wait, the founders wished to serve “the common defense” AND the “general welfare.” I mean those phrases appear both in the Constitution’s Preamble and in Article I, Section 8. To a non-Party guy like me, it seems the big R-party latched onto the defense part and the big Ds ensure our government “promotes the general Welfare”.

Until a political party actually embraces both of those parts in a way that focus on individual responsibilities AND liberties then the R’s and D’s will continue to patronize those that will continue the two-party deadlock!

As much as I was bummed out by the results of the election, I am not convinced that the other guy/party would do that much different “to form a more perfect Union” and “secure the blessings of liberty”. I am sure the time has come “for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another” and start with a new focus and resolve!

But what the hell do I know????

[Radar Rider]

I'm normally a "glass half-full" guy, but 2012 indicates to me the end. Empires rise and fall.

I look at the Roman Empire, France, Spain, Italy, England. All at one time were great and powerful. Hell, even Denmark and the Netherlands were powerful.

I once belived that the USA would change the historical paradigm. Ronald Reagan stated that "freedom and democracy will leave Marxism and Leninism on the ash heap of history." The Soviet Union fell, only to be succeeded by Putinism.

It happens. I'd prefer that the USA be the world's preeminent power, but I can't help but observe what appears to be inevitable. One man is helping to make it happen.

[bubba]

I believe that there is rapidly coming a time where one of our currently united (by contract) states (countries) will abolish it's ties with the rest of the states. I like to think of it as a divorce proceeding. The causes of this will be obvious to anyone with half a brain. Why in the hell would anyone ever pay their wife's lover's rent? Why would any wife pay for her husband's mistress' vacation? Once a state (or commonwealth) figures out that paying for welfare in Chicago or healthcare in L.A. is not in it's own self interest, that will be time to act. When Illinois, California, and New York all go broke, and they will sooner now rather than later, Texas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, etc etc, are just simply going to not be a part of the union as it currently exists. When that finally happens, what will the federal clowns do? Will they order the US Army to enforce martial law? Will they send the FBI, ATF, etc to enforce some kind of tax policy? Well, that will be the crux, and will, I sincerely hope, lead to another Constitutional Congress to be formed, and we will re-wright the document, hopefully with more "user friendly" language that will course correct where the perversion-ist ideology of "democracy" / "fairness" / etc and return us to a Constitutional Republic. We are still here, and this problem will necessarily get worse before it will be fixed.

Just my .02

Back to playing my fiddle..................

[SF18C]

Bubba,

I am kinda hoping Texas will go first!

[Storm]

I fear much of the damage has been done. One of the pundits on election night said something to the effect that, once these policies are in place, it is difficult, or impossible to reverse them.

The term being thrown around seems to be, "You can't beat Santa." Scary, but true. Once people have been given all of these freebies, taking them away would require sufficient shock to the system to make said freebies the lesser of two evils to give up out of necessity.

Once upon a time, I believe it may have been possible, however, too many folks in this country no longer care about America, or what we represent. Once they are finished taking their handouts, they will return to whence they came, or to wherever the next opportunity leads them. They have no stake or claim in this "melting pot" beyond what they can send back to their country of origin, feed their families with, or can claim freely without doing anything but understanding the system. This applies to every race, color, and creed here in America.

Our POTUS reflects our nation.

Once the office of the POTUS was an ideal, greater than the man who inherited the office. Once self-reliance, and sacrifice meant something. Once hard work, wealth and success were considered a barometer of achievement. Once being an American meant keeping your own identity, but also assimilating into the idea of the "American Dream," adding your own gifts into the mix along the way. As Reaper's quote noted, once these people held the majority, and held the other side in check.

Now our POTUS the MAN believes himself greater than the office. By all accounts he shows up late, or not at all. He attempts to impose his will regardless of Congress, the Consitution, or the Supreme Court. The man is nothing short of a modern day late-Roman Emperor, appeasing the mob with gifts of "food and sport." Oh, and "Obamaphones," lest I forget.

Reliance on government, expectations of handouts, and youth who seem to believe they are entitled to everything in life, simply because they were born is the norm. "Hard work" means waking up at 1030 and getting Starbucks.

Believing voters should be educated is "racist." Choosing a person to fulfill a quota over the best candidate for the job is "equal opportunity."

Over 93% and 71% respectively(last time I saw the numbers) of two minority ethnic groups voted one way. Can somebody please tell me the last time 93% of people could agree on anything substantial? Yet the MSM would have us believe that vote count has nothing to do with skin color, or policy, Obama was just the best man for the job. Then we have certain Republicans and pundits going with "we have to do more to improve our Latino vote." They seem to be fundamentally misreading the issue, much the way we are misreading the intentions of Islamic jihad.

Just like the credit card, 99% of people prefer more cash back. Simple advertising, gigantic ramifications. Beating Santa is hard.

That being said, those who are hard working, are going to continue to be. We will not give up on these ideals we hold so dear. We must, somehow, change the attitudes of our youth of all colors and creeds, teach them personal responsibility, and character. Hard work and success must be good things, goals to strive for. Then, and only then, will we have the possibility of digging ourselves out of this mess, cold hard reality must overtake perception.

I apologize for the rant.

[Radar Rider]

Originally Posted by SF18C

Bubba,

I am kinda hoping Texas will go first!

Texas is a state with no state taxes. Can it absorb the refugees from the Blue states?

I like San Antonio.