Very professional police officer.

[alelks]

Nice to see encounters like this handled so professionally. My hats off to the officer.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=589_1345502474

[chance]

That was AWSOME!! That officer was truly a professional. What I really hate is douchebags like that guy that want to try the system, all he's doing is making law abiding citizens look bad and giving gun carriers a bad name with LEO.

[hoot72]

I would be alarmed if people who were not law enforcement were walking around with semi automatic machine guns in public...looks like its goin that way nowdays...

Oh well.

[Destrier]

Originally Posted by hoot72

I would be alarmed if people who were not law enforcement were walking around with semi automatic machine guns in public...looks like its goin that way nowdays...

Oh well.

I find people walking around with a slung firearm comforting. The individual in the video is a punk, but at least he is reminding people (maybe not through his comments) through his walks, that this is normal and lawful.

[Barbarian]

Props to the officer.

I find people walking around with a slung firearm comforting. The individual in the video is a punk, but at least he is reminding people (maybe not through his comments) through his walks, that this is normal and lawful.

I like seeing folks carrying weapons, but this guy was clearly looking to make trouble. People like this make us legally-armed people all look like retards.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by hoot72

I would be alarmed if people who were not law enforcement were walking around with semi automatic machine guns in public...looks like its goin that way nowdays...

Oh well.

Then do not come to Arizona.....

I am "alarmed" when I see local, state and federal law enforcement with military style assault weapons, fully automatic machine guns and drones.

[Stingray]

Originally Posted by alelks

Nice to see encounters like this handled so professionally. My hats off to the officer.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=589_1345502474

Well done officer.
Thanks for posting it Alelks.

[RB]

This will probably raise a few eyebrows and that IS my intent, however, my intent is not to disrespect LEO's in any way, shape, form.

The LEO was very professional, but a few points about legal and illegal need to be made. The LEO should not have touched the weapon. For one, he "detained" and conducted an "illegal search and seizure" at the moment he disarmed the lawfully abiding citizen [LAC] The LEO had no probable cause that a crime was committed by the LAC. The LEO received a call from a "concerned citizen" and although the call was responded to, it was not responded to in the eyes of legality, but was responded to very professionally. There is a difference. Your rights can be violated by a very professional LEO just like they can by the big burly cop that demands a Terry Stop is completely legal because he says so. The point is if you don't know your rights, research them.

The LAC stated that he did not consent to a search. The LEO conducted the search anyway and broke the law, albeit very professionally. Had the LAC truly known the law about OC, he would've stood his ground about non-consent and requested the LEO's supervisor or an FTO. The LEO could plainly see that this was an advocate OC and not an ugly encounter so "officer safety" was not an issue. He also could have stepped in front of the LAC, checked that the gun was not full auto, and that it was chambered in .22 easily. The LEO chose to disarm illegally.

What many who don't carry and fail to realize is that the LAC DID NOTHING WRONG. I KNOW I KNOW..... and I agree, walking down the street sporting what appears to be an evil black gun OC slung is probably not too smart, but it IS NOT ILLEGAL.

As for the stop, professional, yes, well, if you consider about half of the illegal stop professional. Depends on which half you like I suppose.

RTKBA

2c

[PSM]

RB,

What if the law is written to require the LAC to surrender the weapon for inspection? Until recently*, CA allowed OC if the weapon was unloaded. The only way to tell if it was unloaded, and legal, was to surrender it to a LEO when requested to do so.

*When people started legally carrying, though, the legislature changed the law to make it illegal. It may still be legal in the less populated counties.

Pat

[monsterhunter]

Originally Posted by PSM

RB,

What if the law is written to require the LAC to surrender the weapon for inspection? Until recently*, CA allowed OC if the weapon was unloaded. The only way to tell if it was unloaded, and legal, was to surrender it to a LEO when requested to do so.

*When people started legally carrying, though, the legislature changed the law to make it illegal. It may still be legal in the less populated counties.

Pat

In California when open carry was legal, an individual was required by law to submit to a weapons inspection by a peace officer (if they were in public). To refuse a weapons check was a misdameanor. Most of the open carry folks I encountered were very polite, compliant, and their main goal was to educate. There were the occasional individuals who would try to provoke a more uninformed LEO into screwing up in order to capture it on video, post it on the net, and file suit. The terminology used is very similar to this individual; however, he was on the more mild to moderate side of things.

I would be surprised to find this LEO conducted an illegal search. Many states will allow you to inspect a weapon and to remove it in a safe fashon yourself. There is also case law wich governs these individual state penal codes as well; however, the laws do vary greatly from state to state.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by RB

This will probably raise a few eyebrows and that IS my intent, however, my intent is not to disrespect LEO's in any way, shape, form.

The LEO was very professional, but a few points about legal and illegal need to be made. The LEO should not have touched the weapon. For one, he "detained" and conducted an "illegal search and seizure" at the moment he disarmed the lawfully abiding citizen [LAC] The LEO had no probable cause that a crime was committed by the LAC. The LEO received a call from a "concerned citizen" and although the call was responded to, it was not responded to in the eyes of legality, but was responded to very professionally. There is a difference. Your rights can be violated by a very professional LEO just like they can by the big burly cop that demands a Terry Stop is completely legal because he says so. The point is if you don't know your rights, research them.

The LAC stated that he did not consent to a search. The LEO conducted the search anyway and broke the law, albeit very professionally. Had the LAC truly known the law about OC, he would've stood his ground about non-consent and requested the LEO's supervisor or an FTO. The LEO could plainly see that this was an advocate OC and not an ugly encounter so "officer safety" was not an issue. He also could have stepped in front of the LAC, checked that the gun was not full auto, and that it was chambered in .22 easily. The LEO chose to disarm illegally.

What many who don't carry and fail to realize is that the LAC DID NOTHING WRONG. I KNOW I KNOW..... and I agree, walking down the street sporting what appears to be an evil black gun OC slung is probably not too smart, but it IS NOT ILLEGAL.

As for the stop, professional, yes, well, if you consider about half of the illegal stop professional. Depends on which half you like I suppose.

RTKBA

2c

Well, officer safety is Always an issue. You never know. Nice encounters can turn ugly in the blink of an eye.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Then do not come to Arizona.....

I am "alarmed" when I see local, state and federal law enforcement with military style assault weapons, fully automatic machine guns and drones.

When I was a cop I too was alarmed at the escalating militarization of the police. I still am.
Whenever I protested the black uniforms, tactical gear, and other things I was accused of being a dinosaur. I'd point to Sir Robert Peel's 9 Principles of Policing. Then they were convinced I was a dinosaur.
Now I'm a retired dinosaur.

[monsterhunter]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

When I was a cop I too was alarmed at the escalating militarization of the police. I still am.
Whenever I protested the black uniforms, tactical gear, and other things I was accused of being a dinosaur. I'd point to Sir Robert Peel's 9 Principles of Policing. Then they were convinced I was a dinosaur.
Now I'm a retired dinosaur.

I understand and appreciate where you are coming from as I felt the same way for many years. A few things changed much of the way we must do business. The North Hollywood shootout sent officers scrambling to a gun store in order to borrow weapons just so they could have a better chance at fighting back. Not long afterwards, a friend of mine was hit with automatic gunfire from an AK-47. He and his partner were still able to take out the suspect with their 92FS’s. Their discipline and shot placement made the difference in that battle. Their car was riddled with bullet holes, one in the headrest too.

A couple of weeks after that incident, another couple of my friends were opened up on with an Uzi. They too won the fight.

None of these weapons were acquired legally. I don’t believe they were even stolen. Many of the local gangs are running the dope trade and have international connections. It’s as easy to have these weapons brought in as it is their large supplies of dope. The days of the “Saturday night special” are over and it’s not terribly uncommon for the average patrol officer to run across these folks.

The cartels are in a lot of my old hunting grounds in order to grow their marijuana. They are posting guards, booby traps, and a lot of them are well armed. Some of the grows are being located within just a couple of miles of the local mall.

We’re also carrying more items on our belts. Since the day when the most common uniform of today began, we’ve added radios, Tasers, all different forms of less lethal weapons, added the vest, and whatever other new things come down. It used to be a revolver, a couple of speed loaders, and a set of handcuffs. Throw in having to cross a seasonal river in a wool uniform and I’m ready for the changes.

What sucks is the wrong reaction. What I mean by this is disarming the citizens and tightening regulations on everything. The criminal never did worry about this. I’ve never met a gang member who purchased a firearm and went through a waiting period. But this doesn’t stop a knee jerk reaction from government.

I’m not for the drones and other invasive crap, but I’d sure appreciate an external vest with a suspension system underneath, some pants and a uniform shirt that aren’t made of wool and cost more than a suit. It really sucks having to roll on the pavement, while trying to take somebody into custody without hurting them in $100.00 pants.
End of rant.

[Ape Man]

The black uniform thing bothers me more than it should.

I work with a bunch of people who are technically sworn officers. I guess I should not put the pejorative "technically" in there as the law is the law. But since they are not allowed to carry firearms and they don't do any of the normal law enforcement duties, it is hard for me to think of them as "officers."

Anyway, I come to work one day and all these people are suddenly wearing black uniforms. It was done so that they would look more "professional" and to raise their moral (these are the official reasons given in the minutes).

Its a small thing. But it really bothers me that the color that was good for 100+ years is no longer professional.

[RB]

Great convo!

I read earlier that a majority of the states allow an officer to remove the weapon to inspect. I'd invite you to research Terry as it's a Supreme Court decision and does not allow an officer to "inspect". Terry is not subject to city ordinances, city codes, or state statutes for an LEO to CYA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

I carry a 92FS. There are automatic pistols on the market. An officer here in NC may approach me, and again, I'm a legal 2A advocate, to include OC, but how would he know it's semi or full auto? NC is not a stop and identify state. I don't need to ID myself, nor do you need to inspect my weapon if I'm not doing anything illegal.

I, for the most part, just want to be on my merry way and not be hassled. I'm defending myself as I'm a responsible adult and a veteran and I'm legally able to do so.

You won't catch me walking down the street, slung M4 or Rem 700, camera in hand trying to incite a confrontation, but I do understand that a fight for rights not fought means a lost battle and lost rights every time. They'll take them if you don't know you have them, and you'll be none the wiser.