McRaven Tells Troops to Pipe Down

[BMT (RIP)]

"We will pursue every option available to hold members accountable, including criminal prosecution where appropriate," the four-star commander wrote, in an open, unclassified letter emailed to the active-duty special operations community Thursday, and obtained by The Associated Press.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...tml?ESRC=eb.nl

BMT

[SF_BHT]

Good for him but................ He needs to do the same. He has jumped on the Political band wagon for Obama. He also needs to be APolitical.

[Richard]

Politicized flag officers are easy to spot - just look for the brown ring around the end of their noses.

Richard

[Unapologetic Soldier]

This is rather bewildering to me. First a Hollywood movie then a book and now a 60 minutes interview?!? Why are the SEAL’s publicizing themselves to this degree? Not to mention the other side of the spectrum where you have another retired SEAL who made the video dishonorable disclosure? The two are extremely contradicting.

Yes I understand they are retired but I’ve never seen this from any other SOF elements? As someone one said in a similar thread what happened to the quite professional mentality?

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by gijoeftcarson

Why are the SEAL’s publicizing themselves to this degree?

Because American navalism trumps the board.

As Henry Stimson reflected on the many interservice issues between the army and the navy during the Second World War and subsequent discussions of unification:

. . . some of the Army-Navy troubles. . . grew mainly from the peculiar psychology of the Navy Department, which frequently seemed to retire from the realm of logic into a dim religious world in which Neptune was God, Mahan his prophet, and the United States Navy the only true church.*

______________________________________________
* Henry L. Stimson, with McGeorge Bundy, On Active Service in Peace and War (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1948), 506.

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Because American navalism trumps the board.

As Henry Stimson reflected on the many interservice issues between the army and the navy during the Second World War and subsequent discussions of unification:


______________________________________________
* Henry L. Stimson, with McGeorge Bundy, On Active Service in Peace and War (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1948), 506.

Umm, forgive me Mr. Sigaba, but: King Neptune, and Davey Jones and Mini The Mermaid.

The national waters of a given country off the coast are marked. Inland is determined by how far a SEAL can go, and by morning on an "easy day", that can be quite a distance.

Originally Posted by gijoeftcarson

This is rather bewildering to me. First a Hollywood movie then a book and now a 60 minutes interview?!? Why are the SEAL’s publicizing themselves to this degree? Not to mention the other side of the spectrum where you have another retired SEAL who made the video dishonorable disclosure? The two are extremely contradicting.

Yes I understand they are retired but I’ve never seen this from any other SOF elements? As someone one said in a similar thread what happened to the quite professional mentality?

Because many of them are getting chewed up on inland missions in The Sandbox and other areas doing their job, and like other services, there is a need for more SOFs.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Umm,

Neither gijoeftcarson's question nor my reply touched upon the operational challenges SEALs face. My reply merely points out that the current controversy takes on a different light when viewed in the context of America navalism and how that collection of sensibilities has played out in matters of policy formation and public affairs.

And that is where Davy Jones and Mini The Mermaid come in. If not about operational capacities and easy days, then what? Conjecture? I garuntee operational teams have a very different outlook.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Entire post.

What point(s) are you attempting to communicate?

Are you arguing that the operational environment explains/justifies the current trend in that sees certain elements of the SOF community publicly discussing matters that other elements of the SOF community should be kept secret?

Are you arguing that groups within the navy have not had a different take on matters of policy with other armed services, especially the army?

Are you arguing that navalists have not sought to publicize the navy's exploits in order to secure a larger role in the nation's defense?

Or are you interpreting the comments in this thread as criticisms of the operational capabilities of the SEALs, their contributions to GWOT, and their commitment to defending this nation? If so, I think you're misreading them.

[Box]

Hm...
Let me look at how this plays out in comparison when we consider who the "pipe down" message is geared at:

-Life as a DA force with unlimited resources, treated like a prince and glamorized in the media
-Life on a VSP, with 'figure it out on your own' resources, treated like a dirt-bag because your beard is a little too long, and subjected to the role of the emotionally deranged veteran in the media

...someone explain to me again which one lives the 'no easy day' persona? Some people really do believe their own headlines.


I can only wish upon Mr Bissonnette all of the fame and fortune he deserves.

Originally Posted by Sigaba

What point(s) are you attempting to communicate?

Are you arguing that the operational environment explains/justifies the current trend in that sees certain elements of the SOF community publicly discussing matters that other elements of the SOF community should be kept secret?

Only after the upper echelon has already gone public. Guess we have to wait for the book.

Are you arguing that groups within the navy have not had a different take on matters of policy with other armed services, especially the army?

Not at all, sir. The decisions at the JSOC level are made without, unbelievably, my input.

Are you arguing that navalists have not sought to publicize the navy's exploits in order to secure a larger role in the nation's defense?

How can one argue against global strike capability...within minutes?

Or are you interpreting the comments in this thread as criticisms of the operational capabilities of the SEALs, their contributions to GWOT, and their commitment to defending this nation? If so, I think you're misreading them.

No criticisim on this end, only results that are obviously not publicized, for, in contrast, to that which is made public.

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Hm...
Let me look at how this plays out in comparison when we consider who the "pipe down" message is geared at:

-Life as a DA force with unlimited resources, treated like a prince and glamorized in the media
-Life on a VSP, with 'figure it out on your own' resources, treated like a dirt-bag because your beard is a little too long, and subjected to the role of the emotionally deranged veteran in the media

...someone explain to me again which one lives the 'no easy day' persona? Some people really do believe their own headlines.


I can only wish upon Mr Bissonnette all of the fame and fortune he deserves.

And the tan, QP Billy L-bach.
The next quietest groups, IMHO, are "on deck."

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Umm, forgive me Mr. Sigaba, but: King Neptune, and Davey Jones and Mini The Mermaid.

The national waters of a given country off the coast are marked. Inland is determined by how far a SEAL can go, and by morning on an "easy day", that can be quite a distance.

Because American navalism trumps the board.

As Henry Stimson reflected on the many interservice issues between the army and the navy during the Second World War and subsequent discussions of unification:

Maybe I'm just tired from too much fun and a lack of sleep. Maybe I'm just pissed off because a friend died. Maybe I'm just tired of 'newbies' here interjecting crap that really doesn't need to be interjected, but:

WTF are you talking about? Intelligent people are having a discussion about a topic of some concern to those in the SOF community, that being people who should know better shooting their mouths off when they should STFU. This bozo, and he IS a bozo, is the latest in a string of those doing that. It just seems the most recent are all SEALs. Intelligent people, and SF prides itself on recruiting intelligent people, often expand topics with relevant information.

I felt Sigaba's post did just that. I failed to see reference to "Davey Jones" or "Mini the Mermaid" in his post. I saw a quote from a prominent figure in the history of the defense establlishment of this nation that was germane to the question posed by an SF Candidate. How this response helps clarify the SF Candidate's question also mystifies me:

Because many of them are getting chewed up on inland missions in The Sandbox and other areas doing their job, and like other services, there is a need for more SOFs.

Or this:

Only after the upper echelon has already gone public. Guess we have to wait for the book.

How does the casualty rate justify violating certain principles about keeping one's mouth shut?

How does what the "upper echelon" does justify what the "author" does, or I do, or you do?

And this one:

And the tan, QP Billy L-bach.
The next quietest groups, IMHO, are "on deck."

Well, it just reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBPXUurumDU

[SF_BHT]

ZD
Thanks. I was about to do a rant about the same thing. Spot on.
Let's quit this bull shit. If you have served you know what we have been talking about. This current problem is not because of the old service compaticion to dominate the military that we had from 1900 thru WW II. We are a different military today. The SOCOM commander summed it up what needed to be done.