10-16-2004, 16:25
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ryndon, NV
Posts: 339
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Buying American
This is sort of spun off from the Leatherman/politics thread, and I'm wondering what some of you guys think about it. We all, I presume, prefer to buy American (the majority of us who are Americans, at least). An interesting trend recently is that of having foreign manufacturers (primarily car companies) opening factories in the US to be able to cash in on the 'buy American' impulse.
Which makes for an interesting question. If a Toyota, say, is made in Tennessee, is that buying American? Should the question be more that it is providing American jobs, or that the money is, ultimately, flowing to foreign corporations?
I guess the primary question is, is it still 'buying American' if it is, ultimately, a foreign corporation?
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DanUCSB is offline
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10-16-2004, 16:29
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,045
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For me it's more "Made in America". That's getting harder and harder to find. And harder on the check book, too.
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Kyobanim is offline
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10-16-2004, 16:42
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Well, if we buy American, then only buy from those that don't support Kerry, and then, and then...I'd be running around naked trying to use my fingers for pliers.
I try to buy American when I can. North, Central, South, mostly in that order. But I mostly don't buy from certain companies for certain reasons. Take BHI for example. I wish they made everything in the US, but I kinda see why they don't. Understaning that, if they made it in Taiwan or Honduras, I would probably still buy it. But they went to Vietnam. Not cool. So I won't buy anymore of it if I can help it. And there are better alternatives.
If it comes down between buying American from a guy that supports Kerry or buying from a foreign-owned company, with all other things being equal, I will buy from the lib.
I would also rather buy from a small business person than from a major corporation. I will buy from the one man shop before the 35 man shop - simply because I support people trying to do their own thing and I know how much it means to them.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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10-16-2004, 23:11
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#4
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ryndon, NV
Posts: 339
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Like many others, I try to buy American as best I can. I avoid Wal-Mart, and prefer small businesses; however, as NDD brought up, in the globalized (-izing) economy, it would be very difficult indeed to buy exclusively domestic. (How would the TS ever get his USPs?  ) In such case, I do try to do what I can, which is not always practical.
As for the original topic, I think it's a little shifty. Is buying a Toyota built by American workers better than one built by Japanese workers? Absolutely. But I'd rather buy a car that's built by Americans, and have the profits flowing to an American (even if it is a multi-national) corporation.
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"I have seen much war in my lifetime and I hate it profoundly. But there are things worse than war; and all of them come with defeat." -- Hemingway
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DanUCSB is offline
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10-16-2004, 23:46
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#5
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Kia ora, bro
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 931
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Considering that Toyota, I believe, is owned by GM, then you're buying American anyway.
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Huey14 is offline
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10-17-2004, 11:49
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#6
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS
Posts: 415
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Huey14
Considering that Toyota, I believe, is owned by GM, then you're buying American anyway.
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Toyota is a GM competitor. GM counts as its subsidiaries Saab and Opel with stakes in Isuzu, Subaru, and Fiat.
http://www.hoovers.com/general-motor...actsheet.xhtml
Ford's subsidiaries include: Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Volvo and it has a 33% stake in Mazda. It also owns Hertz.
http://www.hoovers.com/ford/--ID__10...actsheet.xhtml
Toyota consists of Toyota, Lexus, and their warehouse equipment like forklifts.
http://www.hoovers.com/toyota/--ID__...actsheet.xhtml
As to the thread, my dad is a staunch labor union guy. No, I am not a communist. He raised me to buy American above all else. When practical, I do, preferring my money to go American workers in American-held companies. That isn't always possible obviously.
NDD put it best I believe as far as what I try to do.
On a related note, if there aren't books on how America lost its own auto market then there should be. I think based on what little I know of it that it would make a fascinating story.
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CommoGeek is offline
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10-17-2004, 13:14
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#7
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver (Not BC), Washington (Not DC)
Posts: 505
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Trying to "Buy American" is next to impossible. If you buy a GM vehicle, what you are buying is a vehicle that was "Assembled in America" with the parts sourced in Canada, Mexico, Korea, and a few other places. All of the big 3 auto makers buy a great deal of the "parts for parts" overseas and assemble as few of them as is legally possible here in order to meet the legal definition of "American Made".
"Parts for Parts " means that they build as many sub assemblies as possible to make a finished part. They go so far as to manufacture a percentage of a part overseas, and finish it domestically. They'll buy "blanks" that can be finished domestically as well. A simple theoretical example (because I am not a car guy, and I can't cite a specific example): Lets say you wanted to buy 10,000,000 8- Penny nails. Some factory in Korea would draw the wire to length and cut it to length, then ship it to you. You then put them on your stamping machine and stamp a head and point on them. You now have a "Made in the USA" nail since all you started with is a rough shape.
Now picture all the screws, washers, bolts, clips etc in your car being made in similar fashion.
It is almost impossible to buy a product that is 100% American made, 100% American sourced unless you buy uncomplicated items from small manufacturers.
While you are supporting American Labor if you buy a Honda built in Alabama, you’re exporting US Dollars off shore. The problem is that now if you buy an AMERICAN brand, you’re doing the SAME THING. I ignore all of the hype attributed to “Look for the Union Label” or “Support Union Labor” etc, because it has been meaningless for a decade.
The American Labor Movement has done more damage to this country for their own benefit than any other entity in economic history. They have given the term “Made in America” the same meaning that “Made in China” had in the early 80’s… zero.
A little anecdote on my part:
In my last real job, I went to a meeting with some Deputies from some counties in Central Michigan. We were sitting in a bar in Lansing having a beer. This jackass behind us works at the Pontiac plant up the road. He’s bitching about his job as if he was being tortured all day.
I finally got sick of listening to him and told him “If you hate your job so much, why don’t you quit?”
We got to talking. He worked on the “Headlight Line”, installing headlights in the Grand Prix. As we’re talking, he’s describing what he does… basically, he drops in the LEFT headlight on every car that comes to his station. He then installs the screws that don’t have anything to do with aligning the headlight. He gets at least 8 hours of OT every week, and gets his hours rounded up, so if he works for 1 hour and 15 minutes, he gets paid for 2 hours. He doesn’t align the lights, or connect the harness. He just puts in the light and sets the screws that hold it in. He doesn’t even do BOTH sides, jut the LEFT side. He doesn’t even go get more lights when he starts to run out, someone else does it. Someone else connects the harnesses, and aligns the lights. This guy was making $26.50 per hour, with 100% benefits, an almost guaranteed job for his kids thanks to union patronage, 2 months vacation during retooling and the list goes on and on.
The whole time, I’m thinking to myself that this guy and all of his friends are the reason manufacturing is dying in this country.
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Bravo1-3 is offline
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10-17-2004, 13:30
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CommoGeek
Toyota is a GM competitor. GM counts as its subsidiaries Saab and Opel with stakes in Isuzu, Subaru, and Fiat.
http://www.hoovers.com/general-motor...actsheet.xhtml
Ford's subsidiaries include: Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Volvo and it has a 33% stake in Mazda. It also owns Hertz.
http://www.hoovers.com/ford/--ID__10...actsheet.xhtml
Toyota consists of Toyota, Lexus, and their warehouse equipment like forklifts.
http://www.hoovers.com/toyota/--ID__...actsheet.xhtml
As to the thread, my dad is a staunch labor union guy. No, I am not a communist. He raised me to buy American above all else. When practical, I do, preferring my money to go American workers in American-held companies. That isn't always possible obviously.
NDD put it best I believe as far as what I try to do.
On a related note, if there aren't books on how America lost its own auto market then there should be. I think based on what little I know of it that it would make a fascinating story. |
NUMMI is the joint Toyota-GM venture in Fremont, Kali.
They make the Toyota Corolla and GEO Prism (whatever it is called now) there, along with one of the Toyota trucks.
TR
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The Reaper is offline
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10-17-2004, 18:22
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS
Posts: 415
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
NUMMI is the joint Toyota-GM venture in Fremont, Kali.
They make the Toyota Corolla and GEO Prism (whatever it is called now) there, along with one of the Toyota trucks.
TR
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I am a victim of faulty pre-post intelligence, but I have a plan to fix that. A plan endorsed by....
My first post was wrong, but I've changed my mind in light of the recent intelligence regarding my post. I was a young man....
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CommoGeek is offline
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10-17-2004, 20:37
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#10
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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I predict that Greenhat will state my position accurately when he states his own.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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