10-15-2004, 12:57
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Army Investigating
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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041015/D85O0B2O0.html
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Army is investigating reports that several members of a reservist supply unit in Iraq refused to go on a convoy mission, the military said Friday. Relatives of the soldiers said the troops considered the mission too dangerous.
The reservists are from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, which is based in Rock Hill, S.C. The unit delivers food and water in combat zones.
According to The Clarion-Ledger newspaper in Jackson, Miss., a platoon of 17 soldiers refused to go on a fuel supply mission Wednesday because their vehicles were in poor shape and they did not have a capable armed escort.
The paper cited interviews with family members of some of the soldiers, who said the soldiers had been confined after their refusals. The mission was carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.
Convoys in Iraq are frequently subject to ambushes and roadside bombings.
A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. A statement from the military's press center in Baghdad called the incident "isolated."
"The investigating team is currently in Tallil taking statements and interviewing those involved. This is an isolated incident and it is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened or any action that might be taken," the coalition press information center said in the statement, sent to The Associated Press in Washington.
In the statement, U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command had appointed his deputy commander to investigate the incident.
The statement did not confirm several aspects of the relatives' stories, including the number of soldiers involved and the reason they refused the mission.
The soldiers refused an order on Wednesday to go to Taji, Iraq - north of Baghdad - because their vehicles were considered extremely unsafe, Patricia McCook of Jackson, Miss., told The Clarion-Ledger. Her husband, Sgt. Larry O. McCook, was among those detained, she said, saying her husband had telephoned her from Iraq.
The platoon being held has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., who told the newspaper her daughter Amber McClenny is among those being detained.
Patricia McCook said her husband told her he did not feel comfortable taking his soldiers on another trip.
"He told me that three of the vehicles they were to use were 'deadlines' ... not safe to go in a hotbed like that," she said, according to the newspaper.
The paper cited interviews with family members of some of the soldiers, who said the soldiers had been confined after their refusals. The mission was carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.
This is the part that makes my blood boil. Somebody else had to do the mission, but it got done.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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10-16-2004, 03:46
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#2
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Nevada
Posts: 213
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Being deadlined isn't a big thing. All deadline items are typically "bless-offable" by the commander. Example: Parking brake on humvee doesn't work. Not "SUPPOSED" to drive it. What do you do? Get the TC's ass out, chock the wheel, put 'er in neutral or park depending on tranny, and charlie mike! Or, get a 2x4 with a V notch in each end, and stomp the brake pedal to the floor and wedge the 2x4 between the brake pedal and the steering wheel.
If the vehicle is broken, it didn't happen overnight unless you either a: put it in a ditch or b: went out with a crowbar and had a bashathon under the hood. Either way it's negligence by the unit that their equipment isn't up to par for a mission, and then not coordinating for other vehicles to accomplish the mission is a failure at the XO level. When we didn't have enough rides for some stuff in afghanistan, we borrowed some from another unit. They didn't like the fact they didn't have wheels, but our mission at the time took precidence to their driving around. Someone's going to have shit parked at the motor pool and if it was me, and I had a mission, I'd figure out who's not going to need one for a while, and if need be I'd use the master key aka bolt cutters and I'd go do the mission.
Blasted quitters. I hope that 15-6 investigation finds them all punishable under UCMJ via courts-martial.
Last edited by TF Kilo; 10-16-2004 at 03:49.
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TF Kilo is offline
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10-16-2004, 14:26
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 1,149
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I think the word "reserve" caught my attention. They typically get the worse the Army has to offer as far as gear goes, if anything at all. Seeing the condition of these vehicles coming down here from up there, i am really not that surprised. I think it is sad that we sacrifice the safety of our men and women today with all the money being poured into the current effort. Considering we are paying some of these contractors over here over $8000 a month, I think we could spend some money on new vehicles. I think that we never stay in a constant state of preparedness or readiness, thus the condition we are finding ourselves in now.
__________________
The question is never simply IF someone is lying, it's WHY. - Lie To Me
We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men - Boondock Saints
Iraq was never lost and Afghanistan was never quite the easy good war. Those in the media too often pile on and follow the polls rather than offer independent analysis. Campaign rhetoric and politics are one thing - the responsibility of governance is quite another.
- Victor Davis Hanson
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AngelsSix is offline
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10-16-2004, 15:46
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,534
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Okey-dokey, we want new vehicles, new body armor with front and back SAPI plates, the best web gear available, boots that feel like sneakers but hold up like Buster Browns (did anyone actually wear through a pair of those things?), helmets that can stop a .50 BMG but weigh less than a soft cap, rifles that instantly kill the bad guy no matter where you hit him...anything else? Luckily not only is this all easy to do, but it comes with absolutely no budgetary impact. 
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Razor is offline
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10-16-2004, 16:27
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
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You are not permitted to refuse a lawful order, even if it puts you in jeopardy.
That is the principle behind military discipline.
"Sergeant, attack and reduce that machinegun nest."
"But our weapons are in bad shape and need maintenance. Our fire support element isn't available. And we might get hurt!"
"If you keep standing here talking, you are definitely going to get hurt. Move out and draw fire."
On the periphery, and without any real knowledge, I also see a leadership problem (again).
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-16-2004, 16:56
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#6
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In the land of the little people
Posts: 761
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I say they should court martial all the NCO's involved and all EM's should be given at least a maxed out field grade.
I am tired of hearing this BS of "we're only CS/CSS people." To many years of allowing pogue MOS's to sit on their haunches and do nothing. EVERY SOLDIER in a combat zone is a SHOOTER FIRST. Looks like the same mentality that cost the 507th so dearly is still alive and well. I know things take time to change but after a year and change I would think that people would see that being in a combat zone is dangerous and if you expect to survive you better learn how to shoot.
Pardon the rant as I am medicated right now and trying to not lose my cool over this stupid shit.
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brewmonkey is offline
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10-16-2004, 17:27
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Nothing like making your buddies put their ass on the line and take your mission because you were yellow.
Was it easier for them?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-16-2004, 17:39
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#8
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In the land of the little people
Posts: 761
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Nothing like making your buddies put their ass on the line and take your mission because you were yellow.
Was it easier for them?
TR
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First name Buddy last name Fucker.
It is always easier for someone else to do the work. I would like to know why vehicles were allowed to get into the state of disrepair in the first place. Were the operators doing their PMCS/2404's? Did -20 level people follow up on them? If the vehicles were deadlined did the XO or BMO check the deadline and approve the use of the vehicle? What exactly were the deadlines? All I am hearing about this is wha they claim and so far nothing credible to back it up.
When it comes down to it my guess is that these people were nothing more then cowards being led from within. One of the supposed NCO's had to be leading this group of oxygen thieves. Find him and make the biggest example possible.
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brewmonkey is offline
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10-16-2004, 17:46
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#9
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In the land of the little people
Posts: 761
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716
This article says UCMJ has already been applied to some of the soldiers with at least one being reduced back to EM rank. The whole unit has been ordered out of duty until the vehicles can be inspected. My guess is when the maintenance people get to their vehicles they will find nothing worse then minor -10 issues that would not make the vehicles unsafe to operate.
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brewmonkey is offline
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10-21-2004, 02:59
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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343rd QM
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Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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10-21-2004, 11:44
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#11
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ryndon, NV
Posts: 339
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Sounds like a weak attempt to distance herself as far and early as she can from a mess that is, in large part, her fault. Maybe trying to salvage what she can? Either way, despicable.
__________________
"I have seen much war in my lifetime and I hate it profoundly. But there are things worse than war; and all of them come with defeat." -- Hemingway
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DanUCSB is offline
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10-24-2004, 09:54
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#12
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 1,149
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Wow, I am seeing an ugly trend with the women in charge!! What is up with that?? 
__________________
The question is never simply IF someone is lying, it's WHY. - Lie To Me
We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men - Boondock Saints
Iraq was never lost and Afghanistan was never quite the easy good war. Those in the media too often pile on and follow the polls rather than offer independent analysis. Campaign rhetoric and politics are one thing - the responsibility of governance is quite another.
- Victor Davis Hanson
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AngelsSix is offline
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10-24-2004, 20:51
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AngelsSix
Wow, I am seeing an ugly trend with the women in charge!! What is up with that?? |
Is that a rhetorical question? 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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