10-11-2004, 18:56
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#1
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Moderator
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I need the Blade Masters' help
I was told tonight that one of the feats of control, (some would say stupidity) I have to do at my 3d dan test next year is to do a flying side kick to an apple balanced on the edge of a sword held verticle. It's to show control buy using just enough force in the kick to push the apple through the blade. I need a sharp sword. My sword is made of 440 steel. How do I sharpen this thing to the point oc cutting paper? I'd like to leave with the belt and my foot in one piece if at all possible.
Thanks
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Kyobanim is offline
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10-11-2004, 19:41
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#2
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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The answer depends on who added a signature to a document and changed the date on a blade around here some time ago...
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Bill Harsey is offline
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10-11-2004, 19:46
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#3
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Oh, Yeah, I forgot to add, send it to me. I'll sharpen it.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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10-11-2004, 19:46
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
The answer depends on who added a signature to a document and changed the date on a blade around here some time ago...
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Oooh, As the World Turns. 
Been waiting a while to pull that one, haven't you.
You do realize that he could do/have done much worse?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-11-2004, 19:52
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#5
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Oooh, As the World Turns.
Been waiting a while to pull that one, haven't you.
You do realize that he could do/have done much worse?
TR |
Or as we used to say around the Drop Zone and today in the Industry, "As The Prop Chops" !!
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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10-11-2004, 20:09
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#6
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Moderator
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What's everybody talking about? 
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
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Kyobanim is offline
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10-13-2004, 21:00
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#7
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
What's everybody talking about? |
I have no idea, how'd this thread get sidetracked? That's never happened around here before.
Back to work! Important question, how sharp do you want the blade? 440 is the designation for a class of high, medium and lower carbon chromium stainless, hardenable, steels. The three different classes of 440 are, "440A", "440B" and "440C". The letters stand for the carbon content therefore the potential for hardenability during heat treat. Of the three, 440C has the highest carbon and makes the best blade. Carbon content of steel and heat treat have a great deal to do with how sharp we can get a blade. How to test the edge next.
Last edited by Bill Harsey; 10-15-2004 at 20:17.
Reason: neanderthal syntax
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Bill Harsey is offline
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10-13-2004, 21:16
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#8
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
I was told tonight that one of the feats of control, (some would say stupidity) I have to do at my 3d dan test next year is to do a flying side kick to an apple balanced on the edge of a sword held verticle. It's to show control buy using just enough force in the kick to push the apple through the blade. I need a sharp sword. My sword is made of 440 steel. How do I sharpen this thing to the point oc cutting paper? I'd like to leave with the belt and my foot in one piece if at all possible.
Thanks
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Don't do it. Its insane. But if you must:
If you send your sword to Mr. Harsey for him to sharpen, I would hire Doc T to stand by as well. That AF fighter is the sharpest thing I have ever seen. If you practice this with a Harsey blade, I would wear steel shank boots to start with and even then there's no guarantee.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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10-15-2004, 06:36
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#9
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Important question, how sharp do you want the blade?
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That's a good question. The idea is to push the apple through the sword with a push, not a full on kick, so I don't think surgical sharpness is necessary. Maybe sharp enough to cut paper?
Quote:
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Don't do it. Its insane. But if you must: If you send your sword to Mr. Harsey for him to sharpen, I would hire Doc T to stand by as well. That AF fighter is the sharpest thing I have ever seen. If you practice this with a Harsey blade, I would wear steel shank boots to start with and even then there's no guarantee.
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This is the only thing I don't like but I need to do it to progress. 3d dan is better than 2nd for getting students for your school. Go figure. I've seen 4 people do this and none have been injured. Of course all 4 were teenagers not 49yo morons.
Maybe I need to use one of my lower grade swords.
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
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Kyobanim is offline
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10-15-2004, 07:22
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#10
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Demos
Kyobanim, I've watched this demonstration not go as well as it could have. Long time ago had some old school Koreans over as guests for a big tournament. One of the kicking demonstrations they performed was having one guy sitting on the shoulders of another holding out an apple stuck on a short sword blade. The guy doing the kicking did a running jump spinning back kick and blew the apple into two pieces off the end of the sword. As he walked away he left a nice dinner plate sized footprint of blood with each step of his kicking foot. He didn't do anymore demos that day. Edge Geometry next...
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Bill Harsey is offline
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10-15-2004, 07:55
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#11
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
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Edge geometry, the angle at which each side on the blade comes together to meet at the final front of the working edge determines how well any given blade will cut. The strength of the steel is always the determining factor in how thin we can make the edge to cut with least possible resistance without bending or breaking. Another factor is mass because with any edged tool designed for hard strikes and maximum penetration will have to have some weight. The mass of a blade is limited by how fast or for how long the human user can make it work. Mass adds thickness and this causes changes in edge geometry. All the above has to do with sharpening a sword. It is usually a lot more work than a knife blade because to sharpen correctly, you have to remove a lot of steel, with a high degree of precision, along the entire side of a sword blade to maintain a good cutting geometry that cuts well. It is rarely a matter of just a simple sharpening bevel at the front of the edge.
Last edited by Bill Harsey; 10-15-2004 at 08:13.
Reason: caveman syntax
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Bill Harsey is offline
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10-15-2004, 09:19
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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I'm just kidding you Kyo, go for it! If they can do it, so can you. Who dares wins! Fortune favors the bold! Nothing ventured - nothing gained! Just do it! A stitch in time saves nine! Only the good die young! Tourniquets save lives! 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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10-15-2004, 11:42
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#13
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Guest
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
That's a good question. The idea is to push the apple through the sword with a push, not a full on kick, so I don't think surgical sharpness is necessary. Maybe sharp enough to cut paper?
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Just a thought, Sir: If you touch the sword, you will be injured regardless of the level of sharpness, since you'll have wanted to have it sharp enough for the demonstration.
Wouldn't it in that case be smart to have it as sharp as possible so less force is required, thus minimizing risk of going too far?
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10-15-2004, 12:00
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#14
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin
Just a thought, Sir: If you touch the sword, you will be injured regardless of the level of sharpness, since you'll have wanted to have it sharp enough for the demonstration.
Wouldn't it in that case be smart to have it as sharp as possible so less force is required, thus minimizing risk of going too far?
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That is correct. The dynamics of the kick are; run, jump, deliver a proper side kick which includes full extension of the leg, tap the enemy apple with the ball of the foot, land, and if needed, pick up the extra piece of foot lying on the floor. The weak link is my lack of consistancy lining up the kick which could lead to becoming part of the population that only has 1.5 feet.
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
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Kyobanim is offline
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10-15-2004, 12:08
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#15
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Guest
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
That is correct. The dynamics of the kick are; run, jump, deliver a proper side kick which includes full extension of the leg, tap the enemy apple with the ball of the foot, land, and if needed, pick up the extra piece of foot lying on the floor. The weak link is my lack of consistancy lining up the kick which could lead to becoming part of the population that only has 1.5 feet.
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Fully extended tapping... that is impressive.
Good luck, Sir.
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