The "Last Hard Class" is coming

[Hammock]

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/0...school-051612/

Army brass mulls sending women to Ranger school

By Lolita C. Baldor - The Associated Press
Posted : Wednesday May 16, 2012 15:30:50 EDT


WASHINGTON — Army leaders have begun to study the prospect of sending female soldiers to the service’s prestigious Ranger school — another step in the effort to broaden opportunities for women in the military.

Gen. Raymond Odierno, Army chief of staff, said Wednesday that he’s asked senior commanders to provide him with recommendations and a plan this summer. And while he stressed that no decisions have been made, he suggested that Ranger school may be a logical next step for women as they move into more jobs closer to the combat lines.

“If we determine that we’re going to allow women to go in the infantry and be successful, they are probably at some time going to have to go through Ranger school,” Odierno told reporters. “If we decide to do this, we want the women to be successful.”

According to Odierno, about 90 percent of senior Army infantry officers have gone to the school and are qualified as Rangers. Allowing women to go to Ranger school, he said, would allow them to be competitive with their male counterparts as they move through the ranks.

Going to Ranger school, however, does not automatically mean women would be allowed to serve in one of the Army’s three elite Ranger battalions, which are Army special operations forces. In fact, many male soldiers who wear the coveted Ranger tab on their uniforms never actually serve in one of the three battalions.

Currently, women are not allowed to serve as special operations, infantry or armor forces, which are considered the most dangerous combat jobs. They are, however, allowed to serve in a number of support jobs such as medics, military police and intelligence officers that are sometimes attached to combat brigade units.

Odierno said his commanders are looking at whether the Army should open up infantry and armor jobs to women, and how that should be done.

As of this week, 200 women reported to nine different battalions around the country, as the Army implements plans to formally allow women to serve in smaller units that are closer to the front lines. New Pentagon rules allowing women to serve at the battalion level — rather than just the larger brigade — were unveiled earlier this year, opening up about 14,000 more jobs for women across all the military services. There are currently more than 250,000 positions that are closed to women.

A brigade is roughly 3,500 troops split into several battalions of about 800 soldiers each. Historically, brigades were based farther from the front lines and they often include top command and support staff, while battalions are usually in closer contact with the enemy.

Women make up about 16 percent of the Army.

[Snaquebite]

Do you have a comment/position or just posting a news article

[Hammock]

(via WeaponsMan is a blog about weapons. Primarily ground combat weapons, primarily small arms and man-portable crew-served weapons. The site owner is a former Special Forces weapons man (MOS 18B))

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814

"
[...]

The Ranger Training Brigade has been told to roll the welcome mat and the first class could be 03/13 but will definitely be 05/13 at the latest. Each class in the remainder of FY 13 will receive five to eight women, and the treatment, mentoring, nurturing and ultimate success of those female candidates will be intensively managed by the Chief of Staff and the Sergeant Major of the Army, not to mention civilian appointees. The male candidates in the same courses are not of interest to the command, as long as they don't interfere with or criticize the women. Even the timing of the feminized classes was established for political reasons: to ensure that a fait accompli of female Ranger attendees, if not graduates is presented to the incoming SecDef and Secretary of the Army if, as the current leaders think likely, their patron is defeated in November. They did not want to put women in class 1/13, which starts in October, to prevent Congress from intervening before the elections, but 2/13 is an outside possibility.

Current Ranger graduates, Ranger veterans, and the Ranger units and Ranger training establishment were never consulted about the decision. Officers who argued against it in Pentagon meetings have already been dismissed or shunted into career-ending punishment assignments.

[...]

The instructors and cadre have been advised that any public statement is a career ender, and those that have spoken to WeaponsMan.com have done so at considerable personal career risk. Their input wasn't sought beforehand, and it sure as hell isn't wanted now.

[...]

It's still unclear whether training evolutions that women would have difficulty with will be dropped or re-normed for all students or just for the women. The introduction of women to Airborne School in the 1970s resulted in a massive easing of the challenge to all troopers, with low levels of attrition coming from arbitrary mind-games replacing high levels of attrition from physical failure. But that could be done without consequence, because the main point of airborne school was simply learning to parachute, something that's possible for any healthy person.

In Ranger School, one possibility is sex-norming various standards, to prevent the credibility damage that the feminized jump school suffered. The command-preferred approach is to lower standards across the board now, before the classes containing the women. allowing the initial class of women to claim they met the same standards as the men. While those decisions haven't all been taken yet, they need to be made within days, because planning for next year's classes is already well underway."

[stg]

Originally Posted by Hammock

(via WeaponsMan is a blog about weapons. Primarily ground combat weapons, primarily small arms and man-portable crew-served weapons. The site owner is a former Special Forces weapons man (MOS 18B))

I post rarely, but read often. That's a very good article and contained the details that were/are lacking in the other articles I've found online.

I'm just a former rear echelon vet...and I find this move to be the worst kind of political pandering.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by stg

I post rarely, but read often. That's a very good article and contained the details that were/are lacking in the other articles I've found online.

I'm just a former rear echelon vet...and I find this move to be the worst kind of political pandering.

I agree....

If I were planning to destroy the United States from "within" first I'd destroy capitalism (almost complete) and then I'd work on throwing United States military into total chaos.

As with women in Ranger school I'd come out and say the USA has women in all the federal agencies that do all the jobs men do, why not the US Military? Let's "redistribute" the genders across the military board. (we'll lower the standards too so everyone can pass)

Ranger school is a volunteer school. Want to guess how many men will volunteer for the class after the women graduate? (besides the transgenders). Want to guess how many Ranger Tabs find their way into the trash can?

In my opinion this single "political" decision could actually wipe out the US Army Rangers in very short order.

The Spartans are not amused.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I agree....


Ranger school is a volunteer school. Want to guess how many men will volunteer for the class after the women graduate? (besides the transgenders). Want to guess how many Ranger Tabs find their way into the trash can?

It's actually nauseating to me.

[Richard]

This whole idea probably makes perfect sense to a leg-@$$ CSA and leg-@$$ SMA sitting around the Starbucks giving each other 'Yes, sir...three bags full!' handjobs and sucking down their macchiato whatevers in that five-sided concrete squirrel cage on the Potomac.

And so it goes...

Richard

[glebo]

Dontcha just love it when these decisions are made by folks who never have to live it or be down there where its affects are felt???

Gotta love the "good ideas"...just to fall in with the current social climate.

Yup, the services have always been the "test bed" for social experiments...some good (desegregation), some bad (women in jump school, when the hell they gonna jump into combat??)

[cbtengr]

Just when you think you have heard it all. This is another good reason why the current occupant of the WH and his social engineers from within the military establishment have to go. There will be a helluva price to be paid some day for being in vogue or stylish. God help us all.

[MR2]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I agree....

If I were planning to destroy the United States from "within" first I'd destroy capitalism (almost complete) and then I'd work on throwing United States military into total chaos.

As with women in Ranger school I'd come out and say the USA has women in all the federal agencies that do all the jobs men do, why not the US Military? Let's "redistribute" the genders across the military board. (we'll lower the standards too so everyone can pass)

Ranger school is a volunteer school. Want to guess how many men will volunteer for the class after the women graduate? (besides the transgenders). Want to guess how many Ranger Tabs find their way into the trash can?

In my opinion this single "political" decision could actually wipe out the US Army Rangers in very short order.

The Spartans are not amused.

So are they going to call it a Ranger Pad then and change the color to pink? This is a Gwad awful decision.

[bjm300]

This article says that they are just thinking about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...1TU_story.html

[BOfH]

Originally Posted by bjm300

This article says that they are just thinking about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...1TU_story.html

Lib think = Lib feel, which means it will probably get done, which means Ranger School as we know it, is done

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I agree....

If I were planning to destroy the United States from "within" first I'd destroy capitalism (almost complete) and then I'd work on throwing United States military into total chaos.

As with women in Ranger school I'd come out and say the USA has women in all the federal agencies that do all the jobs men do, why not the US Military? Let's "redistribute" the genders across the military board. (we'll lower the standards too so everyone can pass)

Ranger school is a volunteer school. Want to guess how many men will volunteer for the class after the women graduate? (besides the transgenders). Want to guess how many Ranger Tabs find their way into the trash can?

In my opinion this single "political" decision could actually wipe out the US Army Rangers in very short order.

The Spartans are not amused.

I wholeheartedly concur........

Big Teddy

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by bjm300

This article says that they are just thinking about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...1TU_story.html

That's not the information we currently have.......

But I'm sure the Washington Post knows much more about Army Special Operations than we do......

[Cake_14N]

A very slim chance of a positive side, but, hear me out.

Only people that attend the Ranger School actually understand what is involved and how the training is beneficial to operations. If female soldiers are allowed to attend and get that insight and first-hand knowledge of what the course entails and what life would be like in an operational Ranger unit, they would be in a much better position to support those Ranger units.

I learned just how ineffective I was as an Intelligence Officer when I had my first flight in an F-16. The target photo I proudly handed to my pilot as we stepped to the aircraft was completely useless at 25K feet. I just didn't understand what he actually needed until I was in a position to actually experience how he operated.

Hopefully the Army will use this change in a positive way and not a political posture to try to get more support for a particular candidate.