Old timers thoughts on the new generations

[33army]

Ok, I know I may be asking for an execution here, but, I want to know what the older generations think of the young guys...and gals coming into the military these days. Me personally, the new soldiers coming in have a very poor attitude and a "you owe me something" perspective. I may not be as old as some people here but I've been in long enough to see a dramatic shift in the quality of soldiers. So, any opinions here?

[Dozer523]

I have been privledged.
I grew up in an Army family and lived on posts all over the world.
I joined the Army in 1979 and served on AD for 11 years.
During my break in service I observed my son's early career.
I was able to join the National Guard in 2004 and have served for 7 more and I will continue to mandatory retirement age, so I hope I have another 7 years in me.
I am blessed with a job teaching ROTC cadets.

In my experience young people who come into the Service have not changed a bit. They always join for the same reasons: patriotism, adventure, advancement.
The only thing that has changed over time is what the Army requires to join and what the Army does with them once they are in -- how they are trained, led, and treated.

[33army]

I think my issue is that they have a serious lack of respect. For anyone. I had a soldier walk in my office and address me with "what's up man?". When I, and you I would presume, came in that would result in a serious face stomping. He tattled on me for being mean. Then I got an ass chewing for it.

[tunanut]

"What's up man?" Isn't that the same as "pvt. so and so reporting as ordered"?

What's up? How about some extra duty, KP, or guard duty! They still have those, right?

Oh, and there are kids out there being brought up with some respect. Don't loose hope.

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by 33army

I think my issue is that they have a serious lack of respect. For anyone. I had a soldier walk in my office and address me with "what's up man?". When I, and you I would presume, came in that would result in a serious face stomping. He tattled on me for being mean. Then I got an ass chewing for it.

Oh I'm sorry.
I thought you asked for my opinion. What you wanted was me to agree with you. Sorry, again.
This sounds like it really has less to do with him and a lot to do with you. You presumed wrong . . . again. And no they never addresss me that way (I'll wonder about that). So . . . you recieved an admonishment? . . . Details? Perhaps in your haste to get what you deserve you missed an opportunity to lead and train?

Consider the words of retiring Lieutenant General Fridovich.
“When you invest in people and underwrite their mistakes and you earn everyday their loyalty as best as you possibly can with your sincerity and your genuine nature when you do that you can’t but help make the organization better,” said Fridovich. “We are absolutely at our best when we understand and get the vision of the mission and are not interested in who gets the credit.”

[Sohei]

Your situation seems to have presented you with an opportunity to prove your leadership skills. The military is a microcosm of society. There are many great individuals within the ranks of the US military and there are also some that are "not-so-great". However, they are trainable. I understand that some are deemend "unteachable" but that is because of their choices, it doesn't have to be because of yours.

Some people were never brought up to be accountable for their words or deeds. That's where it is incumbant upon you -- the leader -- to step up to the plate, recognize the opportunity to teach them -- and then do it. Make the most of the situation. You don't have to condone or allow their lack of respect, but be consistent in your discipline and make it a teaching -- leading -- experience. Some of your "worst cases" can often times bring out your "best leadership" opportunities. Be the leader you know you are to be and do your best with leading.

[33army]

My apologies for not elaborating on the event. I did correct the soldier tactfully. I informed him that he needed to address me as Sgt or Staff Sgt as I had earned the rank and it is the proper and respectful way to address an NCO, especially when you have never met them prior to that. He responded with, " I didn't know you were a Staff Sgt and I don't just give respect. You have to earn it." <--Exact quote. I asked if he had ever heard of mutual respect or military customs and courtesies, by this time I was getting irritated. He told me that he went to college and has real life experience, and that in the real world that shit wouldn't fly....I may or may not have lost it at that point. I attempted to put him at parade pretty when his 1SG came by my door and saw the incident and that's when my ass chewing commenced. I was informed that I have no right to lecture the SPC as he is not my soldier and that I was out of line for assuming so. (Reason #1 I hate MI)........I may have lost my temper a bit but I don't think I was wrong in my actions.

On a side note, all the advice given is worthy of a book by itself.

[Pete]

Back around 1976ish we had a young SP4 who stepped in a pile of Shit and was told to report to the SGM.

This was in the old two story wood barracks on Smoke Bomb Hill and out team room door was just about across from the SGM's door.

As he entered the SGM's office the SGM started chewing ass until the lad piped up with "SGM if you'd just be at ease a minute............" The next sound we heard was the door slamming followed by some very, very ugly sounds.

[blue02hd]

Sorry guy, but when I read about a SSG who refers to himself as "long timer", the brakes lock up, the red flags fly, and I turn the volume down.

This is not a new or unique issue, well maybe to you but not to the Army. Blaming MI for this environment worked against your credibility. Your describing an issue that seems to be prevalent throughout your work space, and not limited to your cubicle. It's NOT unique to MI, as just about every unit has it's own issues.

The Army allows for multiple levels of corrective actions, counseling, training, and if need be discipline. How do you think the 1SG would view you if you incorrectly reprimanded the SPC? You lost your temper correct? Is that professional? From what I have read, I can see his/ her point. Lead by example?

Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?

[33army]

Thanks Blue, all points taken. I probably could have maintained my senses longer than I did.

Yes the issues do exist across the Army. I do feel that these types of issues are rather prevalent in my particular unit due to the fact that it is a joint environment and we essentially work for the NSA. I'm not blaming MI for this or NSA for that matter. Obviously the leadership plays the biggest factor here. I do think that a good majority of the soldiers here view themselves more as corporate employees than as soldiers. This has been slowly changing since I arrived through the efforts of some good NCO's and I would like to think myself.

As far as this situation goes, I wouldn't say I was a part of the problem but at the same time I didn't help matters.

And I apologize, I didn't mean to refer to myself as a "long timer". I'm not that old.

[lindy]

Originally Posted by 33army

My apologies for not elaborating on the event. I did correct the soldier tactfully. I informed him that he needed to address me as Sgt or Staff Sgt as I had earned the rank and it is the proper and respectful way to address an NCO, especially when you have never met them prior to that. He responded with, " I didn't know you were a Staff Sgt and I don't just give respect. You have to earn it." <--Exact quote. I asked if he had ever heard of mutual respect or military customs and courtesies, by this time I was getting irritated. He told me that he went to college and has real life experience, and that in the real world that shit wouldn't fly....I may or may not have lost it at that point. I attempted to put him at parade pretty when his 1SG came by my door and saw the incident and that's when my ass chewing commenced. I was informed that I have no right to lecture the SPC as he is not my soldier and that I was out of line for assuming so. (Reason #1 I hate MI)........I may have lost my temper a bit but I don't think I was wrong in my actions.

On a side note, all the advice given is worthy of a book by itself.

Ft. Gordon isn't representative off all MI units and that agency doesn't understand leadership at all. The key, IMO, is to be a professional NCO: PT, uniform, tact (I suck at it still), knowledge of the regs, and the way you act as a soldier. The best way to command respect is to give it...especially when it's the most difficult (like getting your butt chewed).

Granted, I've had a few "Zup dude" from new guys in our Spt Co but after a short "teaching, coaching, and mentoring session" they usually get the picture.

[Surgicalcric]

A lil wall-to-wall with his team/squad leader would fix his shitty attitude.

Some people just need their ass beat.

Crip

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

A lil wall-to-wall with his team/squad leader would fix his shitty attitude.

Some people just need their ass beat.

Crip

Concur.

A wake up call is sometimes in order.

Maybe just asking him to close and lock the door would be enough.

Better be sure you can win first though.

TR

[33army]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Better be sure you can win first though.

No issue there, guy looked like a strong wind could knock him over.

[cat in the hat]

This link hit most of the high points about many younger Americans including some soldiers.


http://takimag.com/article/bursting_...#axzz1hnNHjZvC