10-25-2011, 13:26
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 287
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Should SF be a Joint Unit?
http://blog.warfarecenter.com/2011/1...-a-joint-unit/
I have to say I'm conflicted on this one...I tend to think yes it should, but I there are potential issues...
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USANick7 is offline
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10-25-2011, 13:32
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USANick7
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Sure make it a Joint unit, let's repeat Desert One and what happened on Operation Eagle Claw............. 
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Team Sergeant is offline
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10-25-2011, 13:49
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#3
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Since I haven't got a clue regarding those two missions I can't really comment on the Joint Unit concept.......  But,I do have a question,is he right by implying that the SFQC Standards are being lowered in order to make the numbers?....... 
Big Teddy
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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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10-25-2011, 13:51
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,950
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As I have said more than once, keep SF separate. I understand the money part and I want our guys to have the most modern equipment and training available but, when non-SF commanders get involved, gravity takes over and everything goes downhill.
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mark46th is offline
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10-25-2011, 14:10
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#5
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Israel
Posts: 277
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Quote:
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Recruit from all the Services.
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As I understand the current situation (in my admittedly narrow, civilian-shaded perspective), there is already a mechanism in place for transferring between branches of the armed services. Rather than make SF "joint," would it be possible to allow personnel from the other armed forces to attend SFAS, and (for the ones who are Selected) subsequently transfer to the Army?
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BrokenSwitch is offline
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10-25-2011, 14:40
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark46th
As I have said more than once, keep SF separate. I understand the money part and I want our guys to have the most modern equipment and training available but, when non-SF commanders get involved, gravity takes over and everything goes downhill.
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I'm with you, Brother! Keep SF separate, and US Army only.
Do all the 18x, Blue to Green, or Chartreuse to Green you want. Going Joint wouldn't be the end of Special Forces, but it would IMHO be the end of 'Special'!
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"I took a different route from most and came into Special Forces..." - Col. Nick Rowe
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ZonieDiver is offline
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10-25-2011, 16:08
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Could easilly be the worst idea anyone has ever broached WRT the future of SF. There are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes where the Joint "powers that be" have acknowleged that they can't do what SF does; why make an active effort for "jointness" other than to ensure that future SF can't do those things either.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
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Peregrino is offline
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10-25-2011, 16:08
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Replace SF with SEAL
Replace SF with SEAL
Now how does the story read?
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Pete is offline
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10-25-2011, 16:11
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#9
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Replace SF with SEAL
Now how does the story read?
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Big Teddy
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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10-25-2011, 16:20
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,867
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sailors, marines and airmen can already attend the SFQC and then go to an ODA...
...they just have to leave their current service and join the US Army first
A good topic for a blog or a discussion board, but it should certainly be kept far from a uniformed headquarters. We have enough bad ideas to juggle as it is.
...just my two cents.
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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10-25-2011, 18:09
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#11
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 29
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With next to no exceptions, the only guys that can transfer over to the army and go 18x right now are E-4's and below. I think the SF community is missing out on a lot of quality prior service guys who left their respective branch as E-5 and E-6's.
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goon175 is offline
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10-25-2011, 18:17
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sharq-el-ouset
Posts: 526
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Selection is open to all male soldiers who are at or above the rank of E-4 and meet other basic requirements. They hand out engineer tape 10-12 times a year........ come on out and "do the best you can"
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bubba is offline
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10-25-2011, 18:30
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goon175
With next to no exceptions, the only guys that can transfer over to the army and go 18x right now are E-4's and below. I think the SF community is missing out on a lot of quality prior service guys who left their respective branch as E-5 and E-6's.
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If they want to be SF bad enough they will do what they must to get a shot at SFAS. Guys who cant enlist 18X, but want to be SF, enlist with another contract option all the time and wait for the opportunity to fill out a 4187 for SFAS.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bubba
Selection is open to all male soldiers who are at or above the rank of E-4 and meet other basic requirements. They hand out engineer tape 10-12 times a year........ come on out and "do the best you can"
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Well said.
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Surgicalcric is offline
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10-25-2011, 22:36
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#14
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 29
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Thats the problem, right now the Army (USAAC) is trying to shove all the prior service applicants into the Reserves, so literally the only job for active duty open to the ranks E-1 through E-4 is 18x, and E-5 and above is closed to all jobs. They also will not allow administrative reductions of rank like they did in the past, so even if a guy got out as an E-5, but would rather be SF than keep his rank at enlistment, he can't get the reduction.
As a side note, this is only on the active duty side, I would imagine the NG SF groups would have much more leeway with what they can get in.
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goon175 is offline
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10-26-2011, 06:43
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#15
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,973
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Good idea faerie needs wings clipped
The respect & place of honor that I have always held for US Army Special Forces, and all the history I've read on same (including accounts of operations/campaigns written from other angles) tells me that Team Sergeant & Mark46th have summed it up. Gravity takes over, with the appropriate Newtonian acceleration and terminal velocity effects that entails.
Everytime I hear that word "jointness" I wanna puke because, within the DoD monolith, it's just code for "we gotta get our guys in the fight whether they contribute or not, else we won't get our ricebowl refilled at the next appropriations hearing."
I hate the cavalier use of that term - it has cost good men their lives.
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Badger52 is offline
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