Are we too clean?

[Pete]

Was walking through the living room while the wife had on ABC Good Morning.

They were doing the segment with their Doctor vs Dr Oz about arsenic in apple juice.

ABCs doctor was pointing out that humans ingest small amounts of arsenic from just about everything. I forget which disease it was but wasn't something from the 50s and 60s traced back to something from dirt and dust - the lack of which caused the disease?

We are becoming more and more "clean". Is this removing the natural immune properties we were created/evolved with for healthy living?

[alelks]

I believe we are.

Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Pete

Was walking through the living room while the wife had on ABC Good Morning.

They were doing the segment with their Doctor vs Dr Oz about arsenic in apple juice.

ABCs doctor was pointing out that humans ingest small amounts of arsenic from just about everything. I forget which disease it was but wasn't something from the 50s and 60s traced back to something from dirt and dust - the lack of which caused the disease?

We are becoming more and more "clean". Is this removing the natural immune properties we were created/evolved with for healthy living?

Isn't that how "organic" got started?.......

Big Teddy

[scooter]

Probably. Some autoimmune diseases are helped by deliberately infecting the person with parasitic worms, which somehow calm the immune system. Nature is smarter than you are, we didnt evolve in a vacuum.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by alelks

I believe we are.

Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.

We were outside so much,, I can remember when my mom would lock me out overnight....

[Paslode]

Considering the over use and misuse of antibiotics makes you more susceptible to infection, I wonder how the near phobic use of antibacterial soaps plays into the picture.

And why I say that, most places (Lowes, HD, Banks, School, Homes, Etc.) I visit have a dispenser of antibacterial soap in close proximity of where I am. I find them nearly every check out or Teller window. Jiffy Lube has one on the counter. Every public toilet facility has it. More and more I see vehicles with a soap dispenser in the cup holders.

It may be too much of a good thing.

When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark.

Same here and I was blocks away from home, generally playing unsupervised in the woods. Today you might get turned into to CPS for Child Endangerment.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by alelks

I believe we are.

Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.

That is a very astute observation. Kids have been exposed in classroom environments to other kids' ailments for a long time; but there seems to me, in watching gk's growup, that they have extremely little tolerance for what I'd consider exposure to normal stuff. Healthy (ostensibly) lovely kids, but when asking about them all too often my retort has to be, "what d'ya mean they're home sick from school again...? with WHAT?"

Flash to the Gosselins with a chance to camp on an Alaska beach with Sarah Palin & mom obsessing over lack of hand-sanitizer.

I tell 'em go get dirty, get scraped up, we can fix boo-boos later, have fun.
Damn.

[33army]

I may not be as....."aged" as some of the members here, but my ex-wife is a perfect example of causing de-evolution. Keeps my kids squeaky clean all the time. My son has asthma and my daughter has a weak immune system. None of it came about until I was out of the picture. So to help them out I take them to the woods and make them get dirty and roughed up when I see them. Makes for interesting phone calls when they go home.

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by Paslode

Considering the over use and misuse of antibiotics makes you more susceptible to infection, I wonder how the near phobic use of antibacterial soaps plays into the picture.

And why I say that, most places (Lowes, HD, Banks, School, Homes, Etc.) I visit have a dispenser of antibacterial soap in close proximity of where I am. I find them nearly every check out or Teller window. Jiffy Lube has one on the counter. Every public toilet facility has it. More and more I see vehicles with a soap dispenser in the cup holders.

It may be too much of a good thing.

When I was last in school, I had to take a mandatory nutrition class. Many of the things in the class were very....hippie I suppose would be the best word, so I learned to take most it with a grain of salt. However, one of the things we covered actually made some sense and it was the overuse of antibacterial soap and hand sanitizer. The premise being that while yes, it does kill the bad germs, it kills all the good germs as well. There was no antibacterial soap in the school or at least that's what they told us anyway.

[head]

Originally Posted by Ewok

When I was last in school, I had to take a mandatory nutrition class. Many of the things in the class were very....hippie I suppose would be the best word, so I learned to take most it with a grain of salt. However, one of the things we covered actually made some sense and it was the overuse of antibacterial soap and hand sanitizer. The premise being that while yes, it does kill the bad germs, it kills all the good germs as well. There was no antibacterial soap in the school or at least that's what they told us anyway.

But the reason they didn't want you killing the good germs was because they had feelings too

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by head

But the reason they didn't want you killing the good germs was because they had feelings too

Oh you just don't even know how true that is. I think I was one of only maybe three people in the whole school who wasn't vegetarian or vegan (nothing against anyone who is). There was a burger king next door and I would frequently get lunch from there. No one would sit near me or my cheeseburgers.

Back on topic. There is a 16 year age gap between the oldest of my younger siblings and me (my daddy started over in his 40's) and oddly enough even though they are both forced outside often and love being dirty, they both also have way more allergies, immune issues and medications than I did.

[ReconDoc242]

This is a good discussion. Cleanliness does prevent disease in the large spectrum of things, but as anything else taken to an extreme excessive cleanliness has negative reprocautions. As we remove natural microfloura/beneficial bacteria from the surface of our skins, it allows pathonegenic bacteria to grow. I assume thats why there's been a rise in illness with people who suffer from ocd and other similiar conditions.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by ReconDoc242

This is a good discussion. Cleanliness does prevent disease in the large spectrum of things, but as anything else taken to an extreme excessive cleanliness has negative reprocautions. As we remove natural microfloura/beneficial bacteria from the surface of our skins, it allows pathonegenic bacteria to grow. I assume thats why there's been a rise in illness with people who suffer from ocd and other similiar conditions.

On top of the changes in our microfluora on the skin there are changes in the gut as well, especially with the liberal prescribing of antibiotics.

Do not forget the importance of the development of the immune system through infancy and the early childhood years. I personally think this is, in part, why children go through a phase where they explore everything by putting it in their mouths - this would be evolutionarily beneficial for increased antigen exposure in those who had properly functioning immune systems.

[mark46th]

People ask me why I go to Mexico so often. I explain to them that after 2 years in Southeast Asia, I have to go down there to get regular...

[Wiseman]

I don't recall bacteria being the primary cause of OCD. It has been linked but I think the most common cause culprit is the lack of serotonin ( I am not sure about the common portion of my statement. That's why serotonin reuptake inhibitors are prescribed as treatment.