Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > Special Forces Weapons > Edged Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2011, 18:14   #1
Bettendorf
Quiet Professional
 
Bettendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 191
Western Bowie knife issued in SF?

An older gentleman is trying to sell this knife. It belonged to his brother and I think his brother must have retired early to late 70's or so. I just talked to the owner of it on the phone and he's retired Army and his brother was SF who served in 7th and I don't know what other Group or Groups. He's trying to get an idea of value and maybe sell it. They seem to think it's made in the early 60's (this seems to be true from my research). It's made by Western out in Boulder, Colorado. I've seen one's just like it on Ebay for about $150 Buy-it-now's. I asked the owner of it what he's trying to get for it and he said $950. That blow me away as I don't think it's worth more than $100 or so without the guys DD-214 etched into it. But I said I'd see if I could find a story behind it for him. The brother said he seems to think it was an issued knife and I explained to him that it probably wasn't but maybe it was a going-away gift.

Have any of one seen one in the SF? Thanks.

And yes, I searched and came up with squat! What do you guys think?

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...7&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...8&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...9&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...0&d=1315771415

Last edited by Bettendorf; 09-11-2011 at 19:32.
Bettendorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 18:48   #2
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettendorf View Post
An older gentleman is trying to sell this knife.
The web address for the auction is only for those that are registered users of that site.

Grab a copy of the picture or look on Google images for the knife.

Without a picture???

In the mean time,, Here are some examples of Western knives in the service:

http://www.militaryfightingknives.co...n.html#Western

__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
JJ_BPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 19:05   #3
Bettendorf
Quiet Professional
 
Bettendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 191
Opps about the pictures. Here they are. I uploaded them to my photobucket account.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...orf/BOWIE1.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...orf/BOWIE2.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...orf/Bowie3.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...orf/Bowie4.jpg

That's an awesome link you posted, JJ_BPK. I'm going to spend a lot of time there. Unfortunately, this knife isn't there.
Bettendorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 19:15   #4
Papa Zero Three
Quiet Professional
 
Papa Zero Three's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettendorf View Post
An older gentleman is trying to sell this knife. It belonged to his brother and I think his brother must have retired early to late 70's or so. I just talked to the owner of it on the phone and he's retired Army and his brother was SF who served in 7th and I don't know what other Group or Groups. He's trying to get an idea of value and maybe sell it. They seem to think it's made in the early 60's (this seems to be true from my research). It's made by Western out in Boulder, Colorado. I've seen one's just like it on Ebay for about $150 Buy-it-now's. I asked the owner of it what he's trying to get for it and he said $950. That blow me as I don't think it's worth more than $100 or so without the guys DD-214 etched into it. But I said I'd see if I could find a story behind it for him. The brother said he seems to think it was an issued knife and I explained to him that it probably wasn't but maybe it was a going-away gift.

Have any of one seen one in the SF? Thanks.

And yes, I searched and came up with squat! What do you guys think?

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...7&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...8&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...9&d=1315771415

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...0&d=1315771415


I'm gonna have to say that is not an issued knife. It very well could be that it was a going away gift and or a small group buy at the time by a bunch of interested guys, hence the etching of the SF crest. Personally, I think $100.00 would be on the high side unless there is some sort of providence associated with the knife that makes it more valuable.
Papa Zero Three is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 19:20   #5
Snaquebite
Area Commander
 
Snaquebite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
The SF Crest etching looks pretty fresh considering the "age"of the knife.
__________________
D-3129 Life

"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."

"De Oppresso Liber"
Snaquebite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 19:29   #6
Bettendorf
Quiet Professional
 
Bettendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaquebite View Post
The SF Crest etching looks pretty fresh considering the "age"of the knife.
I'm pretty sure it was etched years ago( mid-60's or so). If you follow the link below, you will see something else that old-timer sold off a a month ago through a family friend. It looks like he has some pretty legit stuff. Awesome helmet in link.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...egt-Pathfinder
Bettendorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 19:31   #7
Bettendorf
Quiet Professional
 
Bettendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Zero Three View Post
I'm gonna have to say that is not an issued knife. It very well could be that it was a going away gift and or a small group buy at the time by a bunch of interested guys, hence the etching of the SF crest. Personally, I think $100.00 would be on the high side unless there is some sort of providence associated with the knife that makes it more valuable.
I'm in full agreement. I'm just looking for the same and/or different opinions. Thanks!
Bettendorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 23:23   #8
CSB
Quiet Professional
 
CSB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,159
What you have is a "Hail and Farewell" Bowie Knife.

I don't know if active duty units still have what we used to call the "Cup and Flower Fund" run by the S1. Every officer was docked about $10 - $15 per month in "dues" and the fund bought preapproved gifts under defined situations:

Baby = Silver Plated Cup, engraved with the baby's name.
Death in the immediate family = A wreath of flowers from the Battalion.

Hence the name "Cup and Flower Fund."

PCS = A Bowie knife like the one shown. It comes with a belt sheath that hangs down to about my knees, and a wooden display plaque for hanging in the den. Mine hangs in my office. To be blunt, it's physically unremarkable and you could buy one a a pawn shop for about $25.00.

Looks something like this:

http://www.knivesplus.com/case-knife-plaque-ca-317.html
CSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 05:51   #9
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
I never saw nor ever heard of an issued Bowie - in my experience, it's either a farewell presentation gift from an ODA/B/C or something he bought for himself and had the engraving done as some form of memento or gift.

I purchased a folding Buck for my Dad at the old wooden IMA bookstore across Reilly from Center in '72 and had the following engraving added before giving it to him - name on one side of the blade and the SF SSI, parachutist badge, medical caduceus, and beret w/dagger on each of the four brass end pieces.

That fighting knife link is an outstanding resource, JJ.

Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 08:47   #10
MVP
Quiet Professional
 
MVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AZ
Posts: 618
Value

As CSB as said it is probably worth about $25 on the open market. Even if the engraving is old it is/was not an issue item. The knife in like new condition would have greater value without the crest than with it. If there is some sort of proof showing this knife was actually used in the field vs being some sort of memento it could make a difference but still the knife is not likely to bring more than $50. Documented presentation knives are not bringing much more then their new cost and are rarely purchased by true collectors.

MVP
MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 16:31   #11
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,779
Bull Simons' Bowie used to be on display by the entrance to the SF Museum, along with his powder horn.

IIRC, he used to give the Western Bowies away as going away gifts.

Now if he can prove that COL Simons presented it, it might have some more value.

As it is, it isn't worth much, and it looks like a fake to me.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 16:50   #12
Cowboy 1968
Asset
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9
Western Bowie Knife

In '68 after being assigned to the 7th Group, my Father presented me with one and I carried it throughout my Army career. I didn't have the SF crest but it made a great substitute for a machete, was great for butchering wild game and the top fore blade was kept sharp enough to shave the hair on your arm. When my son enlisted in 1998, I passed it on to him and he carried it to Baghdad. I think in the '60s, the knife could be purchased for about $40-$50 dollars. There was no SF knife issued and most of the guys purchased the Gerber commando style knives. Hope this helps a little.
__________________
"The American flag does not wave because the wind moves past it. The American flag waves from the last breath of each military member who has died protecting it. American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them." - unknown
Cowboy 1968 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 21:50   #13
alright4u
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 974
Re: Cup and Flower Fund

I don't know if active duty units still have what we used to call the "Cup and Flower Fund" run by the S1. Every officer was docked about $10 - $15 per month in "dues" and the fund bought preapproved gifts under defined situations:

Baby = Silver Plated Cup, engraved with the baby's name.
Death in the immediate family = A wreath of flowers from the Battalion.

Hence the name "Cup and Flower Fund."

PCS = A Bowie knife like the one shown. It comes with a belt sheath that hangs down to about my knees, and a wooden display plaque for hanging in the den. Mine hangs in my office. To be blunt, it's physically unremarkable and you could buy one a a pawn shop for about $25.00.

Looks something like this:

I got a 3rd Group GB statue and later a 6th Group GB statue out of the fund in late 67 and again in late 69 or early 70. I think those statues ended before 75? I did not pay into the fund. I think it was just the married officers who paid in.

http://www.knivesplus.com/case-knife-plaque-ca-317.html[/QUOTE]
alright4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 16:59   #14
Bettendorf
Quiet Professional
 
Bettendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 191
Just an update. I just got off the phone with the owner of the knife. I told him the info I've received and the value of it.. "Fuck that!" "Fuck this shit!" "I know a gotta pile of gold" "I wouldn't take less than a $1,000 for it.". "Those guys don't know shit." I'm really qouting him here.

What a guy. I asked him to look this thread up and he flatly refused and said he's old school and doesn't want to look it up. I didn't even offer anything him for it.

Oh, well. Thanks for the insight, guys.

Last edited by Bettendorf; 09-17-2011 at 17:10.
Bettendorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 20:06   #15
PRB
Quiet Professional
 
PRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,221
Oh I dunno, I remember lots of guys carrying swords in combat because our loads were so light....
PRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:47.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies